Hate speech in the Quran and Bible. Should it be tolerated/accepted?

[DNB]

Jehovah literally committed genocide against all non-aquatic life on earth, his extermination of life more thorough amd complete than what Hitler achieved.

It's His creation, He can do what He wants - it's up to you to figure out why.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's His creation, He can do what He wants - it's up to you to figure out why.

That's no excuse and it gives him no right to abuse and slaughter.

 

[DNB]

Another reason I could never be religious. I simply refuse to spend my life wallowing in guilt.

But you should, it's very emancipating. It's a shame that you don't understand what's being said - God's mercy leaves no room for guilt.

 

[DNB]

That's no excuse and it gives him no right to abuse and slaughter.

You're speaking like a child again - it's His universe, therefore He has the right.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You're speaking like a child again - it's His universe, therefore He has the right.

I speak as someone with a decent sense of right and wrong, as someone unafraid to say even the gods are wrong.
Even a creator has no right to abuse.

But you should, it's very emancipating.

Emancipating? Guilt and sin are nothing more than needless shackles and chains.

 

[firedragon]

So what does Malik Ibn Anas claim that "waidribu" means in the context of 4:34?

Lol. So you want to change what someone says?

Anyway, have you even read it? Are you gonna pretend that you did?

Also, its not wadribu. Its "idriboohunna". Wa is just "and".

Its pathetic when people pretend they know the language and make this kind of statement. Be genuine and ask.

 

[stevecanuck]

Also, its not wadribu. Its "idriboohunna". Wa is just "and".

He wrote "waidribu". Read it again.

And it does mean (and) hit/beat/strike them.

 

[firedragon]

He wrote "waidribu". Read it again.

And it does mean (and) hit/beat/strike them.

I know he wrote waidribu. I am only telling him that its Idriboohoonna in that verse he is addressing, and "wa" is just "and" or "then". Maybe if you study a little, like at a Montessori level you will understand what I am saying.

Another arabic expert.

What does the same word in this sentence mean "Idhrib al meal"? Same word Idhrib. Nothing different. What does it mean? Does it mean hit like you bogus experts seem to insist upon?

 

[KWED]

You're agreeing with yourself, which seems somewhat masturbatory.
In any case, you don't appear to need a hand from me.

It's more fun with someone else's hand.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It's more fun with someone else's hand.

We found a point of agreement...lol

 

[KWED]

Hey, if anyone is making an argument that a fundamentalist or literal reading of the bible doesn't dissuade slavery, and it should, I'm right there with them.
But since I personally don't see the Bible as anything other than a book

This is where the modern, revisionist case for religion starts to unravel.
Religions only exist because of those books. The "fundamentalist" and "literalist" readings are the very basis of those religions. If people reject the notion that those books are the word of god, or at least an accurate record of actual events, then we are just talking about an individual's personal world view. There is no longer any need to refer to a god, or the need to please or avoid angering them.

If someone believes in the divinity of Christ, then I guess they're Christian.

But the concept of Christ relies on a literalist reading of the Bible.

It's entirely possible to judge individual things on their merit, and still come up with a position of 'overall I prefer a world without religion' of course. I just think we should judge individual things on their merits.

Of course individuals must be judged by their own words and deeds, not by an acquired cultural label. Which is a good argument for not calling any movement "Christian". Name it by the principle it is addressing. They were "abolitionist" movements. That is all.

 

[KWED]

Lol. So you want to change what someone says?
Anyway, have you even read it? Are you gonna pretend that you did?

I haven't read it, which is why I asked you...
"So what does Malik Ibn Anas claim that "waidribu" means in the context of 4:34?"

Does this mean you don't know? Or does it mean that you do know - but it doesn't suit you?

Also, its not wadribu. Its "idriboohunna". Wa is just "and"

You should know that "waidribuhunna" is a compound term meaning "and strike them". The "hunna" bit refers to the subject, "them".
The key element is the "idribu". In this context it means to strike/hit/beat, as in an action of physical force.

As you seem to have accepted that, I'm not sure what the point of all your red herrings are.
(Actually, it is perfectly clear to everyone. )

Its pathetic when people pretend they know the language and make this kind of statement. Be genuine and ask.

Phew! The irony is so strong I've had to open a window.

 

[KWED]

What does the same word in this sentence mean "Idhrib al meal"? Same word Idhrib. Nothing different. What does it mean? Does it mean hit like you bogus experts seem to insist upon?

What are you on about?
This Quran resource uses 6 of the most widely used and accepted translations. Most were written by fluently bilingual Muslim scholars. They all translate "waidribuhunna" as "and beat/hit/strike" them.
There are many other translations that do the same thing. All you seriously claiming that all these Arabic speaking experts on Islam were wrong, and some random on the internet knows better? (This is called "deferring to authority" BTW.)

Hadith and classical tafsir also confirm that the passage is referring to using physical chastisement as a response to a wife's ill-conduct.

If you enter "Idhrib" into Google Translate, it returns "hit".

These are all facts that have been repeatedly explained to you. You are just making yourself look silly now.

 

[firedragon]

I haven't read it, which is why I asked you...

Ah. But you see, the word Dharb is used to mean even to something like "fly". Thats why you should be a little humble and learn something.

"So what does Malik Ibn Anas claim that "waidribu" means in the context of 4:34?"

Does this mean you don't know? Or does it mean that you do know - but it doesn't suit you?

Lol. I didnt say "Malik ibn annas said anything about this specific verse". I think you are having a habitual misquoting nature.

Its the use of the word, since that's what you spoke of . Use of language.

And of course since you are not honest you are not speaking about the Quran itself and how it uses the word. Obviously. that's why you dont answer simple questions about "how the Quran uses the same word". It seems like you have no clue, but do pretend, and insist upon things you dont know because you have some kind of agenda. never mind. Lets see if you expose yourself even further.

Tell me what the Quran uses this word for, since we are addressing that book. What better context can there be. For the 4th or 5th time, I ask you this question. Try to be honest even if its difficult, and answer this very simple question.

As you seem to have accepted that, I'm not sure what the point of all your red herrings are.
(Actually, it is perfectly clear to everyone. )

Maybe you think like any other bogus evangelist, the ignorant will follow you and draw you money. But anyone who has some intellect won't.

Phew! The irony is so strong I've had to open a window.

The irony can be cut by a scissor. Its that strong. The absolutely ignorant do pretend, and it does work on the internet. You would do well with a YouTube channel. Congratulations.

Yet, it does not hide the fact, that you are just making things up and repeating it think mark Twains strategy will work for you.

 

[firedragon]

This Quran resource uses 6 of the most widely used and accepted translations.

Err. Dont make things up. As usual.

What are usages of the same word in the Quran?

Do the research, then come back. Dont make things up.

 

[firedragon]

This Quran resource uses 6 of the most widely used and accepted translations. Most were written by fluently bilingual Muslim scholars. They all translate "waidribuhunna" as "and beat/hit/strike" them.

So what you are saying is, that you basically go with the majority, and you dong need to know the methodology, the language or anything, just blindly worship the majority right? Is that an ad populum or ab auctoritate? Which fallacy do you think your strategy falls into?

 

[KWED]

Err. Dont make things up. As usual.

So now you are claiming that Sahih International, Hilal/Khan, Sarwar, Shakir, Yusuf Ali, Pickthall and Arberry are not among the most widely used and accepted translations of the Quran?

Are you ok?

 

[KWED]

So what you are saying is, that you basically go with the majority, and you dong need to know the methodology, the language or anything, just blindly worship the majority right? Is that an ad populum or ab auctoritate? Which fallacy do you think your strategy falls into?

So you are now rejecting established Muslim scholars as legitimate authorities on Islam?

Also, loving the irony of a Muslim criticising the idea of blindly following an authority figure.
You couldn't make it up...unless you are a sophisticated atheist troll attempting to satirise this kind of "apologetics", in which case, chapeau. (This would actually explain your responses here pretty well.)

 

[KWED]

Ah. But you see, the word Dharb is used to mean even to something like "fly". Thats why you should be a little humble and learn something.

I have already explained that the meanings of all the words derived from a particular root are not interchangeable (you should be a little humble and learn something).
Remember the word used in the Quran is "idrib", not "dharb".
Also you need to remember the importance of context. "And if a wife shows ill conduct, fly her, but not severely and avoid the face". Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Lol. I didnt say "Malik ibn annas said anything about this specific verse". I think you are having a habitual misquoting nature.

In which case, why bring it up?

Its the use of the word, since that's what you spoke of . Use of language.

But as you have admitted that Malik makes no mention of the use of that word in that context, your argument is meaningless.

And of course since you are not honest you are not speaking about the Quran itself and how it uses the word. Obviously. that's why you dont answer simple questions about "how the Quran uses the same word". It seems like you have no clue, but do pretend, and insist upon things you dont know because you have some kind of agenda. never mind. Lets see if you expose yourself even further.

There are essentially two meanings of idrib in the Quran. To "strike/hit", and "to present".
""And if a wife shows ill conduct, present her, but not severely and avoid the face".
Nope that doesn't work.
"And if a wife shows ill conduct, strike/hit her, but not severely and avoid the face"
Makes perfect sense.
But as you accept that 4:34 is talking about using domestic violence to deter ill-conduct in wives, I fail to see what you are blathering on about.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have already explained that the meanings of all the words derived from a particular root are not interchangeable (you should be a little humble and learn something).
Remember the word used in the Quran is "idrib", not "dharb".
Also you need to remember the importance of context. "And if a wife shows ill conduct, fly her, but not severely and avoid the face". Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

In which case, why bring it up?

But as you have admitted that Malik makes no mention of the use of that word in that context, your argument is meaningless.

There are essentially two meanings of idrib in the Quran. To "strike/hit", and "to present".
""And if a wife shows ill conduct, present her, but not severely and avoid the face".
Nope that doesn't work.
"And if a wife shows ill conduct, strike/hit her, but not severely and avoid the face"
Makes perfect sense.
But as you accept that 4:34 is talking about using domestic violence to deter ill-conduct in wives, I fail to see what you are blathering on about.

Hmm, I wonder if Kent Hovind is considering becoming a Muslim.