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Hate crimes legislation helps to protect all of us

Karl R

Active Member
Last night I was standing at the bus stop when I heard someone yelling. I turned and saw a man leaning out of the window of his pickup truck, and as he drove by he screamed anti-gay obscenities at me.

The insults didn't bother me. I really don't care what homophobes think about me. But it occurred to me that I was standing about a mile from where Matthew Shepherd was beaten to death ... by a group of gay-bashers.

For the next couple minutes I kept an eye on the pickup truck ... just to make certain that he kept driving down the street, instead of making a U-turn or circling the block back to where I was.

I have no idea why this man thought I was gay (other than his room temperature IQ). I'm straight. I was wearing a black t-shirt, black pants and black shoes, so I wasn't particularly "dressed gay". I was standing alone at a bus stop reading CNN on my blackberry, so I wasn't "acting gay". I wasn't in a gay neighborhood. But this homophobe believed I was gay.
Just to clarify, I wasn't doing this either: :ymca:

Obviously, hate crimes legislation doesn't stop someone like that from trying to physically harm me (or someone else). But it does send the message that violence against people isn't acceptable ... even if a large percentage of the society doesn't like the "hated" group. And if that message helps keep bigots in their vehicles, instead of getting out and doing violence to people, then it's helping all of us.

Hate crimes sometimes involve mistaken identity. Sikhs have been attacked because they're mistaken for muslims. Anti-semites attack people who "look" jewish. That means any of us could be attacked, not just for who we are, but for who someone believes we are.

This situation is not without its comical elements. I find it amusing that the mere sight of me, standing alone at a bus stop, staring at my blackberry, was apparently enough to threaten the masculinity of this individual to the extent that he had to express himself. :woohoo:
 
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Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
You were wearing all black? Maybe he thinks goths are another form of gays? It's hard to understand the logic behind such blind hatred and rage. Sorry about your experience and I agree with your post.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
He was merely verbalizing his underlying frustration with not being able to reconcile his hatred of gays, with the erection he got when he saw you standing on the street. Self-hate often causes others to lash out in completely irrational ways.
 

The Voice of Reason

Doctor of Thinkology
It's hard to understand the logic behind such blind hatred and rage.

Logic? In this instance, I hardly think the word applies.

I'm guessing that the guy was nothing more than a mouthbreathing redneck, with a sixpack in the seat beside him, having a bad day.

He probably had to beat his dog, when he got home.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
I'm not a big fan of hate crimes legislation in general. If the public and law enforcement can bring themselves to enforce the law fairly and without prejudice, that should do the job. If you kill someone, you should be apprehended, prosecuted, convicted and punished regardless of who you killed or your motivation. The recent successful prosecution in Colorado of a jerk who killed a transsexual is a good example of how the law should work. The defendant tried to argue some kind of "trans-panic", "she deserved it for deceiving me" defense and it didn't work. The jury properly convicted him, and he was sentenced to life in prison. I'd rather have justice and equality like that than special protected status.
 

Inky

Active Member
I'm not a big fan of hate crimes legislation in general. If the public and law enforcement can bring themselves to enforce the law fairly and without prejudice, that should do the job.

That's part of the problem that hate crimes try to address, though - they allow the federal government to step in when a local community isn't willing to properly prosecute a crime. There have been a great many cases of crimes being ignored in the local legal system because the victim was gay, black, a religious minority, or something similar. Hate crime laws make it harder for it to slip through the cracks.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
That's part of the problem that hate crimes try to address, though - they allow the federal government to step in when a local community isn't willing to properly prosecute a crime. There have been a great many cases of crimes being ignored in the local legal system because the victim was gay, black, a religious minority, or something similar. Hate crime laws make it harder for it to slip through the cracks.

Yes, that's true. The problem with my analysis is that if in fact people are prejudiced, which they are, and allow murderers like Dan White to get only five years because he had the good sense to kill a gay man while he was offing the Mayor, it doesn't work. Nevertheless, I would rather work on eradicating the prejudice and making the existing system work for everyone.
 

Inky

Active Member
Yes, that's true. The problem with my analysis is that if in fact people are prejudiced, which they are, and allow murderers like Dan White to get only five years because he had the good sense to kill a gay man while he was offing the Mayor, it doesn't work. Nevertheless, I would rather work on eradicating the prejudice and making the existing system work for everyone.

I agree - well, I think both are important. Hate crime laws will be necessary only as long as society holds onto its bias against the groups they protect.
 

RomCat

Active Member
Hate crimes legislation is an attempt by the
"thought police" to turn us all into politically
correct robots.
There are already laws on the books to cover
any contingency covered by hate crime laws.
This is an attack upon the First Admendment.
 

rojse

RF Addict
Hate crimes legislation is an attempt by the
"thought police" to turn us all into politically
correct robots.
There are already laws on the books to cover
any contingency covered by hate crime laws.
This is an attack upon the First Admendment.

Oh, so many things wrong here...

Let's start with your main argument. Firstly, we do police thoughts. We consider the person's intent as part of a sentencing of a crime. If I run someone over on accident, that might be deemed dangerous driving causing death, compared to deliberately running someone down, which is murder.

Secondly, not liking gay people is not the crime under this law. Attacking a gay person because they picked a fight with you is not a crime. Attacking a gay person merely for being gay is the crime.
 

rojse

RF Addict
Oh, yes, the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Nothing there that guarantees anyone's right to physically or emotionally harm groups they do not agree with.
 

Smoke

Done here.
Hate crimes legislation is an attempt by the
"thought police" to turn us all into politically
correct robots.
There are already laws on the books to cover
any contingency covered by hate crime laws.
This is an attack upon the First Admendment.
I suppose it seems that way to people who can't practice their religion without committing hate crimes.
 

NoahideHiker

Religious Headbanger
I personally don't get it. I don't see how a violent crime against one person can be considered worse than if the same crime is committed against another. It's all a hate crime weather you're gay, straight, white black, brown, whatever. Enforce the law as it is. Stop being soft on crime.
 

3.14

Well-Known Member
i think hate crime's are ridiculas,

it leads to these kinds of explanations
judge, i didn't kill this gay black jew i was just killing the guy who slept with my wife
 

rojse

RF Addict
i think hate crime's are ridiculas,

it leads to these kinds of explanations
judge, i didn't kill this gay black jew i was just killing the guy who slept with my wife

I am sure that the circumstances surrounding the event, and the previous histories and convictions, would be examined before deeming it to be a hate crime.
 

3.14

Well-Known Member
and thats the problem, you can't always tell what a person was thinking mid murder/or you might get the wrong idee

judge, yes i know i killed another vegetarian bisesual asian moslim but the were both annoying me, 1 was sleeping with my seconed wife and the other was sleeping with my first wife

ofcourse there is also the mention what hatecrime was commited, was it against
vegetarians
bisesuals
asians
moslims
combination of 1 or multipe
etc
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Hate crimes legislation is an attempt by the
"thought police" to turn us all into politically
correct robots.
There are already laws on the books to cover
any contingency covered by hate crime laws.
This is an attack upon the First Admendment.

They're on their way! They're coming to put you away...
 

gnomon

Well-Known Member
One thing hate crimes legislation does not do, when it's written like the one that was repealed in Georgia and merely adds an increase to sentencing, is work to prosecute those who avoided some form of justice. In other words, they do not work like federal civil rights laws that were enacted so the federal government could prosecute individuals where the states failed.

My biggest worry over hate crimes laws is the language of the legislation, as we've already seen how laws "protecting children" in Georgia from sexual predators failed, and the application of those laws. The only case I know of prosecuted in Georgia was a case where one student beat another with a bat over allegations of unwanted sexual advances. Three years were added on to a sentence of aggravated assault and aggravated battery. The victim claimed to not be gay. The law was applied based on the perception of the assailant. After a couple of years the judge in the case went back and reduced the sentence to sever years which is what it would have been without the hate crimes statute. Basically, they turned around and said it was not a hate crime. I don't know what happened in this case because when I first read the story it looked like a clear case of a hate crime to me.

But this is Georgia and we cannot write our laws very well. Not nearly as bad as California but we are still bad when it comes to passing legislation.
 
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