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Has The US Just Declared War?

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
And their close allies?
Life isn't some damned G.I. Joe cartoon.

I'd expect close American allies like Norway or Japan, who have had their oil tankers attacked by Iran, would appreciate U.S. military action diminishing the threat of Iranian attacks against international merchant shipping.
 

Howard Is

Lucky Mud
Think the war would be simple?
How quickly did we finally win the wars in Vietnam, Afghanistan & Iraq?

I believe those wars also damaged the American psyche. That is the dimension rarely accounted for. What do nihilism, depression and damaged self esteem cost a nation ?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I seriously doubt Iran would be able to do much of anything without electricity.
How would we achieve that?
Do you believe they'd not retaliate?

Remember that whatever is obvious to us, would
be obvious to them, & they'd make plans to cope.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Trump, and the USA, lost when Trump trashed the peace deal with Iran.

Iran isn't the pushover they were when Bush attacked them.
They've had decades to plan for this USA assault.
Tom

They're really just that small yiker dog that bites everyone they meet and they only understand the language of being bit by the bigger dog. Every administration has put off dealing them a decisive blow, but it is inevitable that it has to be done. Tell me if you don't completely destroy Iran's military infrastructure that the world wouldn't be a safer place? Yeah, I'd not bet against that either. In the 45 years I've walked the earth Iran has just been causing **** all day and night for every second of that time. If I was merely to resort to math the risk of harming innocents versus the absolute certainty of reward in success it makes sense to completely flatten the place and salt the earth. Mind you, I'm a pacifist, but I know the only language these types of folks understand -- they aren't going to calm down until they understand they're not alpha. If they think they can take an inch they'll go for a mile and won't stop until they can't walk. Then you have to kick them a few more times just so they don't get any ideas... :D

Trump trashed the peace deal for the same reason I would -- it just ties his hands while they're still pulling ****. Peace is a novel concept, but there have always been two ways to get it -- through diplomacy and mutual appreciation, or by beating them down enough that they acquiesce. If we've not got anywhere by talking in 50 years there is no reason to assume that we will. Talking is what has been done, that hasn't worked, do we need to entertain such a ridiculous notion knowing it would fail? Mind you, I _really_ like when talking works, but it depends on the nature of your opposition as to whether that is a useful strategy or not.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
How would we achieve that?
Do you believe they'd not retaliate?

Remember that whatever is obvious to us, would
be obvious to them, & they'd make plans to cope.

"The technology now would open up the use of HPM weapons on different weapon platforms and disable the capability of the adversary even before the hostilities commence. As the HPM technology proliferates, it is but natural that countermeasures like passive shielding of all electronic gadgets particularly used in weapon systems and supporting elements will become a norm. The countermeasures and defence against HPM weapons would call for better and sophisticated technology than the weapon system itself. With the wide-ranging research and development, the HPM weapon systems would soon mature to be fielded as war fighting machinery and provide for capabilities over comprehensive spectrum of warfare."

http://capsindia.org/files/documents/CAPS_Infocus_PP_12.pdf

I have a solution to US v. Iran
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
"The technology now would open up the use of HPM weapons on different weapon platforms and disable the capability of the adversary even before the hostilities commence. As the HPM technology proliferates, it is but natural that countermeasures like passive shielding of all electronic gadgets particularly used in weapon systems and supporting elements will become a norm. The countermeasures and defence against HPM weapons would call for better and sophisticated technology than the weapon system itself. With the wide-ranging research and development, the HPM weapon systems would soon mature to be fielded as war fighting machinery and provide for capabilities over comprehensive spectrum of warfare."

http://capsindia.org/files/documents/CAPS_Infocus_PP_12.pdf

I have a solution to US v. Iran
We've been attacking Iran for well over half a century. We've killed
hundreds of thousands. We've made known our plans for invasion.
If you were in their position, would you have developed counter-
measures? Would some be unconventional, & geared towards
our weaknesses, eg, our intolerance for our noses being bloodied,
our insistence on honoring rules of war?
Sure, sure, it's very likely we could eventually win. it could happen
in a mere few years. But is this path worth the cost?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Think the war would be simple?
How quickly did we finally win the wars in Vietnam, Afghanistan & Iraq?

I don't know, but it seems that Germany and Japan were more powerful and feared enemies back in the day, and we defeated them in less time - with less advanced weapons.

I think war with Iran would be complicated since they could likely get support from Russia or other nations.

These aren't really "wars" anyway. These are more like "mafia hits." They don't seem to conduct wars like they did in the old days, where they would "declare war" and go into battle with their flags flying and shoot each other while standing in a straight line. Now, it's more like some kind of "gang war."
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I don't know, but it seems that Germany and Japan were more powerful and feared enemies back in the day, and we defeated them in less time - with less advanced weapons.

I think war with Iran would be complicated since they could likely get support from Russia or other nations.

These aren't really "wars" anyway. These are more like "mafia hits." They don't seem to conduct wars like they did in the old days, where they would "declare war" and go into battle with their flags flying and shoot each other while standing in a straight line. Now, it's more like some kind of "gang war."
Defeating Japan & Germany had significant differences...
- Existential threat to us.
- Willingness to use nukes.
- Russia & China were our allies, not theirs.

Btw, we were almost defeated.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
That was before the U.S. military had robotic drone technology that could effectively kill the enemy from afar without the risk of American soldiers being in Harm's way.

Your grasp of politics (of which military strikes is merely an extension) is a little old fashioned.
The US military can easily wipe out any conventional military force stupid enough to stand and fight. Iranian resistance is unlikely to be rows of soldiers parading in Tehran.

Anytime you go to war, Americans and their allies are in harm's way, as are civilians. Concepts like 'surgical strikes' are as much sales pitch as reality.

War remains dirty.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't think Iran has the force projection capabilities to threaten American infrastructure. Or are you suggesting top down American rationing type stuff?
A lot of US citizens live in urban sprawl and are very sensitive to supply chain problems. We depend on our grocery stores, our utilities. We rely on many things that people living in the countryside can procure for themselves. You don't live here, but sometimes where there are natural disasters that interfere with supply trucks a lot of people go hungry or have no drinking water. It may sound silly, but its real problem.

I have a few water filters, some dried stores and things like that. I don't rely on them all the time, but you know what if the food trucks for some reason stopped coming I'd be relying on them a lot. I also rely upon petrol. Without petrol I'm stuck many miles from other than what I can catch in the woods. I could find myself living off of worms and beetles inside of 4 months and all because the gasoline was disrupted or because the internet shut down or some silly thing like that.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Unless the next top ranking Iranian General dares to be taken out by another U.S. drone strike like that done to his predecessor, he will likely be cowering in some hidden underground bunker; this must be really demoralizing and humiliating to the Iranian military.
Yeah, thats probably not the case. If someone would cower like that, they probably would never make general. It's prpbably more akin to poking a wasp nest.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
We've been attacking Iran for well over half a century. We've killed
hundreds of thousands. We've made known our plans for invasion.
If you were in their position, would you have developed counter-
measures? Would some be unconventional, & geared towards
our weaknesses, eg, our intolerance for our noses being bloodied,
our insistence on honoring rules of war?
Sure, sure, it's very likely we could eventually win. it could happen
in a mere few years. But is this path worth the cost?

Your grasp of politics (of which military strikes is merely an extension) is a little old fashioned.
The US military can easily wipe out any conventional military force stupid enough to stand and fight. Iranian resistance is unlikely to be rows of soldiers parading in Tehran.

Anytime you go to war, Americans and their allies are in harm's way, as are civilians. Concepts like 'surgical strikes' are as much sales pitch as reality.

War remains dirty.

"The Pentagon's biggest bunker-busting bomb has been upgraded with one task in mind: taking out suspected Iranian nuclear facilities built deep under the mountains of the Islamic Republic's northern region.

At 30,000 pounds, the Massive Ordnance Penetrator packs brute force and advanced features meant to enable it to destroy Iran's most fortified nuclear site. The bomb is nearly a third bigger than the MOAB, or so-called "Mother of all Bombs," the 22,000-pound previous generation of bunker busters first built in 2003 but never used outside of tests. Officials are confident the newest bunker-buster can dismantle even the deepest and most fortified nuclear facility."

Bunker-busting behemoth: Pentagon upgrades bomb with Iranian nukes in mind
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
Defeating Japan & Germany had significant differences...
- Existential threat to us.
- Willingness to use nukes.
- Russia & China were our allies, not theirs.

Btw, we were almost defeated.

I'd consider a nuclear Iran to be an existential risk to anybody in or near the Middle East.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
.

Tuesday (December 31)
Donald Trump warns Iran war with US is a 'bad idea' at New Year's Eve
ball at Mar-a-Lago


Thursday (January 2 )
US troops head to Middle East as Donald Trump says Iran will ‘pay price’
for Baghdad embassy riots


Friday (January 3--13 hours ago)
US kills Iranian general in rocket strike at Baghdad airport as countries
stand on brink of war


Friday (January 3--6 hours ago)
Iran strike | Has the US just declared war?


.

Technically, no. But it's just semantics. We never declared war in Viet Nam, either......
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
"The Pentagon's biggest bunker-busting bomb has been upgraded with one task in mind: taking out suspected Iranian nuclear facilities built deep under the mountains of the Islamic Republic's northern region.

At 30,000 pounds, the Massive Ordnance Penetrator packs brute force and advanced features meant to enable it to destroy Iran's most fortified nuclear site. The bomb is nearly a third bigger than the MOAB, or so-called "Mother of all Bombs," the 22,000-pound previous generation of bunker busters first built in 2003 but never used outside of tests. Officials are confident the newest bunker-buster can dismantle even the deepest and most fortified nuclear facility."

Bunker-busting behemoth: Pentagon upgrades bomb with Iranian nukes in mind
Iran knows of this bomb.
Do you believe that planning for it is impossible?
We must guard against believing that our superior technology &
firepower will make war predictable & easy. One cannot point to
a bomb, & say "With this, we will quickly take them out.".
Such reasoning is solely from our perspective. In war, one must
consider the enemy's. Be imaginative...what could they do to
harm us?
 
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