Has the Paradigm Fallen?

[Bennettresearch]

France has become the focus of a real threat to Europe. THe EU is worried and the Euro has fallen against the dollar to a two year low. What is behind this rioting is the marginalization of immigrants. There is a 40% unemployment rate and immigrants in France feel they have no future because of the way that France disciminates against the non French. I don't need to post a reference because you have all read these facts in the news. In so many different threads in this forum on social issues people continually point to France and Europe as some kind of paradigm. The question is; do you believe that France can still be a social paradigm for the United States?

 

[Scuba Pete]

France has never been a social paradigm for the United States. It has always been regarded as extreme and over the top. The riots have not changed any views about France: only confirmed them.

 

[Sunstone]

France has become the focus of a real threat to Europe. THe EU is worried and the Euro has fallen against the dollar to a two year low. What is behind this rioting is the marginalization of immigrants. There is a 40% unemployment rate and immigrants in France feel they have no future because of the way that France disciminates against the non French. I don't need to post a reference because you have all read these facts in the news. In so many different threads in this forum on social issues people continually point to France and Europe as some kind of paradigm. The question is; do you believe that France can still be a social paradigm for the United States?

I think it depends on precisely what you look to France for. A social paradigm for assimilation of immigrants? No way! France should look to the US for clues about how to do that, not the other way around. But despite that, the US would do well to look to France (and other countries) for ideas about how to deal with teenage pregnancy and abortion, for France has lower rates of those than does the US.

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

Yes, hopefully the false paradigm has fallen. Europe as a whole may be in a great deal of trouble in the coming years. Decades of socialism and a poor work ethic when compared to the West and the Far East may be coming home to roost.

The economic factors I refer to above were related to me by an economist in a conversation over lunch. Not sure how I can provide a link to a private conversation, so don't bother asking me for a cite.

B.

 

[jonny]

France has never been a social paradigm for the United States. It has always been regarded as extreme and over the top. The riots have not changed any views about France: only confirmed them.

I'm with you on this one. I've never thought of France as a place to look to for as an example of what the US should become.

 

[Bennettresearch]

France has never been a social paradigm for the United States. It has always been regarded as extreme and over the top. The riots have not changed any views about France: only confirmed them.

Hey Doc,

I quite agree. I brought this up because in other threads on social issues or about the US people have been pointing to Europe and France as better examples. I think it is time to give the Us a break and give a fair comparison.


Craig

 

[Bennettresearch]

I think it depends on precisely what you look to France for. A social paradigm for assimilation of immigrants? No way! France should look to the US for clues about how to do that, not the other way around. But despite that, the US would do well to look to France (and other countries) for ideas about how to deal with teenage pregnancy and abortion, for France has lower rates of those than does the US.

Hey Sun,

I admit that I am confused about this. With the liberal application of abortion in the US and having it even go to the point that teenagers don't have to notify their parents about it, how is it that we are behind anyone in this respect. Sex education is in the schools and if this hasn't solved anything then what would you suggest we change in the US?


Craig

 

[Bennettresearch]

Yes, hopefully the false paradigm has fallen. Europe as a whole may be in a great deal of trouble in the coming years. Decades of socialism and a poor work ethic when compared to the West and the Far East may be coming home to roost.

The economic factors I refer to above were related to me by an economist in a conversation over lunch. Not sure how I can provide a link to a private conversation, so don't bother asking me for a cite.

B.

Hey MG,

No need to cite anything here. I doubt whether anyone could come up with any facts and figures to refute your statement.


Craig

 

[Bennettresearch]

I'm with you on this one. I've never thought of France as a place to look to for as an example of what the US should become.

Hey Jonny,

Good to know that i am on the same page with someone once in a while.



Craig

 

[michel]

Yes, hopefully the false paradigm has fallen. Europe as a whole may be in a great deal of trouble in the coming years. Decades of socialism and a poor work ethic when compared to the West and the Far East may be coming home to roost.

The economic factors I refer to above were related to me by an economist in a conversation over lunch. Not sure how I can provide a link to a private conversation, so don't bother asking me for a cite.

B.

There is no way that I know enough about this subject to be able to effectively argue - or agree with you, but perhaps you can help me.
Decades of socialism- agreed and a

poor work ethic when compared to the West and the Far East may be coming home to roost.

Have you any example of poor work ethic ?

 

[Engyo]

Have you any example of poor work ethic ?

Michel -

I think this is an inelegant reference to the fact that Europeans often enjoy a shorter workweek and longer vacations than workers in the US or the Far East do; it is not uncommon for workers in the US to work well over 40 hours/week (for overtime pay, of course) and not to take all of the vacation time their job affords.

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

Michel -

I think this is an inelegant reference to the fact that Europeans often enjoy a shorter workweek and longer vacations than workers in the US or the Far East do; it is not uncommon for workers in the US to work well over 40 hours/week (for overtime pay, of course) and not to take all of the vacation time their job affords.

Precisely. I am sure studies exist and can be found, but the general ghist of it is that a very high percentage of American and Far Eastern workers work in excess of 40 hours per week, and often do not take even the meager 2 weeks of vacation allotted to them by their employers, while it is pretty common in France, Spain, Germany etc. . . to work fewer hours per week, with more recognized holidays, and to be afforded a lot more vacation time than American or Far Eastern workers.

I might take umbrage with it being "inelegant" but other than that, you were directly on point to what I was referring to.

B.

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

http://www.vinod.com/blog/News/USvs.EuropeanVacations.html

Just to get you started. There are lots more, but I have yet to figure out how to cut and paste more than one web page at a time.

B.

 

[Sunstone]

Precisely. I am sure studies exist and can be found, but the general ghist of it is that a very high percentage of American and Far Eastern workers work in excess of 40 hours per week, and often do not take even the meager 2 weeks of vacation allotted to them by their employers, while it is pretty common in France, Spain, Germany etc. . . to work fewer hours per week, with more recognized holidays, and to be afforded a lot more vacation time than American or Far Eastern workers.

I might take umbrage with it being "inelegant" but other than that, you were directly on point to what I was referring to.

B.

I suppose whether you think it is a good or bad thing to work like an American largely depends on what you think is the point and purpose of your life.

 

[Darkdale]

Michel -

I think this is an inelegant reference to the fact that Europeans often enjoy a shorter workweek and longer vacations than workers in the US or the Far East do; it is not uncommon for workers in the US to work well over 40 hours/week (for overtime pay, of course) and not to take all of the vacation time their job affords.

My g/f works 60 hours a week and gets no overtime. Salary. It's a *****.

 

[Engyo]

My g/f works 60 hours a week and gets no overtime. Salary. It's a *****.

I am currently working 55/wk, but at least I get paid for every hour I work. No 1 1/2 time, but you can't always have everything......

 

[jonny]

Michel -

I think this is an inelegant reference to the fact that Europeans often enjoy a shorter workweek and longer vacations than workers in the US or the Far East do; it is not uncommon for workers in the US to work well over 40 hours/week (for overtime pay, of course) and not to take all of the vacation time their job affords.

Other than weekends and holidays I've only taken one day off work since April. I feel bad asking for time off, even though I get paid time off.

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

I am on salary myself. I don't even bother keeping up with the hours I work, would just make me mad I think. Funny thing is, around here, the ones who work hourly would love to work more, but the company won't let them, due to overtime, and they pile on the ones who are salaried, since there is no more overhead for the company.

B.

 

[Bennettresearch]

Michel -

I think this is an inelegant reference to the fact that Europeans often enjoy a shorter workweek and longer vacations than workers in the US or the Far East do; it is not uncommon for workers in the US to work well over 40 hours/week (for overtime pay, of course) and not to take all of the vacation time their job affords.

Hey Engyo,

I guess it is only inelegant if it is pro american and not pro european. We can find lots of unfair employment issues in the US, I have had a few of my own. The point here is a macro comparison. All of this talk about empire etc when it comes to the US from countries that actually did have them. We are in the spotlight because we are the richest country. How do you suppose that happened? Right now I am hearing whining from europe that the US owns the internet. Huh? Gee, do you think that if europe had developed it that they wouldn't want to own it? I think this is at issue. Europe hasn't really proven a superior social system through different kinds of socialism or dictatorships etc. And yet, we are still criticized for being a more successful country.


Craig

 

[Bennettresearch]

My g/f works 60 hours a week and gets no overtime. Salary. It's a *****.

Hey Dark,

Man, I have worked some long hours myself. Right now is the first time in the last thirty years that I have had two days off a week. I would agree that the coporate paradigm has aggrivated us all at some time. In a way, it has created the very opposite of what it wants from workers. At my job, I have to carry an extra burden because a lot of workers are only there for the paycheck. They play the sick time game and because my company is not strict about showing up on time they are perpetually late or finding reasons why they have to leave to take care of something. There is no responsibility that this is a job. I am sure that they would like a socialistic system.