Has the Forum Become More -- or Less -- Hateful Over the Past Year?

[Sunstone]

Has the Forum's atmosphere become more -- or less -- hateful over the past year? What do you think?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I've been here 6 months. I can't say I've noticed a huge difference in positivity or negativity in those 6 months. Just a lot of people signing up with a chip on their shoulder and seeming to try to skirt the rules.

I certainly can't say the regular members have gotten more hostile, as they seem quite patient and sympathetic.

 

[Phaedrus]

I've been here 6 months. I can't say I've noticed a huge difference in positivity or negativity in those 6 months. Just a lot of people signing up with a chip on their shoulder and seeming to try to skirt the rules.

I certainly can't say the regular members have gotten more hostile, as they seem quite patient and sympathetic.

“You’ll learn, as you get older, that rules are made to be broken. Be bold enough to live life on your terms, and never, ever apologize for it. Go against the grain, refuse to conform, take the road less traveled instead of the well-beaten path. Laugh in the face of adversity, and leap before you look. Dance as though EVERYBODY is watching. March to the beat of your own drummer. And stubbornly refuse to fit in.”
― Mandy Hale, The Single Woman: Life, Love, and a Dash of Sass

 

[Dawnofhope]

Has the Forum's atmosphere become more -- or less -- hateful over the past year? What do you think?

Its very hard to guage. Although I signed up in 2014 I've only been active for about 3 years. I really appreciate the opportunity to debate and discuss matters of religion and of course rational thought with a range of people across the spectrum of belief. I have a sense of humanity experiencing a resurgence of the forces that would divide us within both politically and within religion. That kind of negativity is certainly part of what is happening here. I think there's some really thoughtful and interesting people here too such as yourself. That keeps me going for now.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Has the Forum's atmosphere become more -- or less -- hateful over the past year? What do you think?

It's a fair question, but a tough one. My opinion on it would change almost daily, and largely based on who is posting on that particular day.
I would say that political discussions have become more hateful. In particular I mean US politics, but that is pretty high in terms of percentage of overall political discussion here. And not like Brexit discussions don't have the potential to become heated.
So overall, I'd have to say 'more', but I don't think it's a substantial change, and I believe it's largely situational. All you really need to do in order to fix this is make US politics less binary. Should be a piece of cake.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

“You’ll learn, as you get older, that rules are made to be broken. Be bold enough to live life on your terms, and never, ever apologize for it. Go against the grain, refuse to conform, take the road less traveled instead of the well-beaten path. Laugh in the face of adversity, and leap before you look. Dance as though EVERYBODY is watching. March to the beat of your own drummer. And stubbornly refuse to fit in.”
― Mandy Hale, The Single Woman: Life, Love, and a Dash of Sass

It's good advice.
But I'd counter that the 'rules' here are really just trying to give everyone a place that they can march to the beat of their own drummer. We mostly only care when you try and steal someone's drum, or tell them their drumsticks are stupid. At this point I realise I'm forcing the analogy somewhat...ahem...

Let's see....
What do you call someone who hangs out with musicians??








A drummer.

Boom-tish.

 

[sun rise]

US Politics? I don't think I'd use the word hateful so much as other words such as disdain, frustrated, angry and so forth. The reason is obvious - we to some extent mirror the atmosphere in Washington DC. And things will get more heated as an impeachment trial starts in the Senate.

 

[Subduction Zone]

A bit more heated in U.S. politics as things come to a boil. Probably somewhat in British politics too, but I don't follow that as closely. Otherwise, same old same old.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's definitely not as friendly and it no longer has the sense of community that it once had.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

It's definitely not as friendly and it no longer has the sense of community that it once had.

I've been reading posts from before I joined for awhile now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a sense of community is something learned from quite a few months on a forum. And, well, it seems like somewhere around half of members from 2014, those with more posts than me, are no longer active.

Just an observation.

Anyway, I will admit there is a certain subject I don't dare talk about on the public forum anymore... it's transitioning. It's like waving a giant "Come one, come all" sign for anti-LGBTQ'ers.

 

[Rival]

Yes, I think it lacks a community spirit like it once did. It's quite divided.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I've been reading posts from before I joined for awhile now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a sense of community is something learned from quite a few months on a forum.

We used to have a Christmas card exchange. When I say the forum had a sense of community, it's not a new member coming in and becoming a part of the sub-culture, but an actual sense of community that we had here.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

We used to have a Christmas card exchange. When I say the forum had a sense of community, it's not a new member coming in and becoming a part of the sub-culture, but an actual sense of community that we had here.

I see.

Assuming it's allowed, I suggest there be a thread where members, without griping about others or naming names, point to that which is a a good sense of community.

I think the thread of Debater Slayer is a great start which was called something like "History of RF" I believe.

One has to see it from my perspective too - I don't really know how things used to be, so I kind of just follow the latest flow myself.

And the idea behind such a proposed thread, is that those who don't know history, are doomed. (Actually the phrase goes "doomed to repeat it", but I like my version better).

 

[Estro Felino]

I deeply respect political opinions which are different than mine

But I've seen very very little respect towards my political opinions on here

Over the past year? Well...I've seen many people have known me better and been more kind towards my views

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't know whether a year is the best time boundary to choose, but there is no dobut that there has been an increase iin aggressiveness in the last few years.

It has become part of the expected engagement protocol, even. Quite a few posts are essentially dares for a comeback of comparable boldness and audacity.

That can be a problem, because when a poster has decided to perceive responses as either submission or defiance, there is very little that a response can do encourage more nuance and wider options for exchange. Besides, there is little point in listening to what amounts to just elaborate expression of disrespect.

Truth be told, considering our subject matters and the current overall level of maturity of discourse, these forums are actually very good at dealing with these challenges. It is a considerably wilder jungle "out there".

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't know whether a year is the best time boundary to choose, but there is no dobut that there has been an increase iin aggressiveness in the last few years.

It has become part of the expected engagement protocol, even. Quite a few posts are essentially dares for a comeback of comparable boldness and audacity.

That can be a problem, because when a poster has decided to perceive responses as either submission or defiance, there is very little that a response can do encourage more nuance and wider options for exchange. Besides, there is little point in listening to what amounts to just elaborate expression of disrespect.

Truth be told, considering our subject matters and the current overall level of maturity of discourse, these forums are actually very good at dealing with these challenges. It is a considerably wilder jungle "out there".

I think the problem is to answer these simple questions:

"Is civil fruitful debate possible?"
I think it is

" Can a poster express a political opinion without being attacked or belittled?"
I think they can

 

[wizanda]

I've never found religious people friendly; so comparatively to earlier in the life of the forum, the moderation has become more standardized, so there are less rude outbursts by some.

There being some new energy seems a problem, as on paltalk, and on here the religious sections are dwindling, with mainly trolls vs trolls left, and the occasional person who claims to be a messenger.

Did think of offering to help advertise more, so we can get some new ideas to munch on; as maybe without new food trolls just eat each other, which is why it has become more hateful.

In my opinion.

 

[Laika]

Has the Forum's atmosphere become more -- or less -- hateful over the past year? What do you think?

When I have engaged on RF, I’ve found that the major issue is the level of suspicion that you don’t mean what you say or you have ulterior motives. It was a feature in 2015, and it was offensive to be thought of as effectively a liar back then- but I think its been far more pervasive now. It appears to have become the norm. Its not the hateful side of it- its the suspiciousness and expectation of bad faith.

My standard of comparison is admittedly some of the most political extreme sites on the web. Compared to what revleft.com was like before 2015 (my previous online home), I suspect RF is now worse- which is frankly dangerous. My experience on RF when I was still a regular member was watching many of the behaviour patterns I had at my most extreme times or that were common on extremist sites become much more common and pervasive. It was alarming then, but now I have to say offline to keep my sanity so I don’t take it in.

However, the levels of radicalisation online are unprecedented in my experience, so if things have deteriorated, RF is not alone by any means. I still keep track of far left online communities, so whats going on there may be indicative.

About three to five years ago, statements like “Stalin did nothing wrong” would be regarded as the work of cranks. Now its the mainstream. (By comparison, it would be like flat earthers becoming the majority of members on RF, taking over the staff and purging any “round earthers” from the site to preserve its purity from an establishment conspiracy and dupes of that evil sinister government organisation- NASA!).

Where before “anti-revisionism” (pro-Stalin and pro-Mao positions) would have been like 1 in a 100 or 1 in a 1000, its now more like 1 in 5 or 1 in 3. Casual references to violence (often as jokes), historical revisionism, denial of atrocities and extreme sensitivity to difference of opinion has reached levels I have never seen before. Pro-north Korea positions have gone from a marginalised minority to something more sizeable (not quite mainstream, but just on the threshold of it). I’m seeing issues come out of nowhere become tests of political loyalty to the cause (e.g. transgender rights had gone from non-existent to central topics of debate and a litmus test of political loyalty in far left communities).

three years ago I was at the outer limit of online political extremism, now I’m banned from far left communities for being too moderate. I am older and more “seasoned” in terms of online debates, more willing to admit nuance and complexity, so I can’t compete with the new breed of vicious, spiteful, knee jerk extremism of the new generation of teenagers and university students who make up far left online communities. Partly because of my age and partly because of the way things have changed, I am now an exile from the very belief system I spent a greater portion of my life advocating or sympathetic towards. (Ironic, if predictable, I’ll grant you )

This, of course, is only a tiny sample of online communities. The far left has grown in recent years but its not as big as it is made out to be. There is nonetheless a profound radicalisation and polarisation going on and it is not confined to RF.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

When I have engaged on RF, I’ve found that the major issue is the level of suspicion that you don’t mean what you say or you have ulterior motives. It was a feature in 2015, and it was offensive to be thought of as effectively a liar back then- but I think its been far more pervasive now. It appears to have become the norm. Its not the hateful side of it- its the suspiciousness and expectation of bad faith.

My standard of comparison is admittedly some of the most political extreme sites on the web. Compared to what revleft.com was like before 2015 (my previous online home), I suspect RF is now worse- which is frankly dangerous. My experience on RF when I was still a regular member was watching many of the behaviour patterns I had at my most extreme times or that were common on extremist sites become much more common and pervasive. It was alarming then, but now I have to say offline to keep my sanity so I don’t take it in.

However, the levels of radicalisation online are unprecedented in my experience, so if things have deteriorated, RF is not alone by any means. I still keep track of far left online communities, so whats going on there may be indicative.

About three to five years ago, statements like “Stalin did nothing wrong” would be regarded as the work of cranks. Now its the mainstream. (By comparison, it would be like flat earthers becoming the majority of members on RF, taking over the staff and purging any “round earthers” from the site to preserve its purity from an establishment conspiracy and dupes of that evil sinister government organisation- NASA!).

Where before “anti-revisionism” (pro-Stalin and pro-Mao positions) would have been like 1 in a 100 or 1 in a 1000, its now more like 1 in 5 or 1 in 3. Casual references to violence (often as jokes), historical revisionism, denial of atrocities and extreme sensitivity to difference of opinion has reached levels I have never seen before. Pro-north Korea positions have gone from a marginalised minority to something more sizeable (not quite mainstream, but just on the threshold of it). I’m seeing issues come out of nowhere become tests of political loyalty to the cause (e.g. transgender rights had gone from non-existent to central topics of debate and a litmus test of political loyalty in far left communities).

three years ago I was at the outer limit of online political extremism, now I’m banned from far left communities for being too moderate. I am older and more “seasoned” in terms of online debates, more willing to admit nuance and complexity, so I can’t compete with the new breed of vicious, spiteful, knee jerk extremism of the new generation of teenagers and university students who make up far left online communities. Partly because of my age and partly because of the way things have changed, I am now an exile from the very belief system I spent a greater portion of my life advocating or sympathetic towards. (Ironic, if predictable, I’ll grant you )

This, of course, is only a tiny sample of online communities. The far left has grown in recent years but its not as big as it is made out to be. There is nonetheless a profound radicalisation and polarisation going on and it is not confined to RF.

I consider myself a Progressivist, which does make me very aligned with left-wing politics, I guess. The majority of my political posts on here, though, are me responding to wild accusations from people from the right whom I don't hate. And responding to them just made matters worse, as I suspect this discussion of politics and even me resorting to jokes at times, well the right didn't really take it very well. It lost me a few friends on the right for my political beliefs.

So I'm afraid I don't relate fully.

 

[LuisDantas]

I think the problem is to answer these simple questions:

"Is civil fruitful debate possible?"
I think it is

Not always.

Some confrontations must be made, even brutally.

" Can a poster express a political opinion without being attacked or belittled?"
I think they can

Definitely not always.

That is not necessarily a bad thing.