1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Has NYC City Council Lost Their Minds?

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by esmith, Jun 19, 2017.

  1. esmith

    esmith Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Messages:
    8,889
    Ratings:
    +926
    Religion:
    No name designated at this time.
  2. tytlyf

    tytlyf The Mind's Eye

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,110
    Ratings:
    +994
    NYPost? Sources esmith. This is a tabloid paper.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    38,907
    Ratings:
    +9,413
    Religion:
    Advocate of letting go of theism. Buddhist with an emphasis on personal understanding.
    The article calls it a "proposal" and says:

    I think the last line is very significative and ought to de-trigger people a bit. It is fair to ask whether there is a need for so much secrecy.
     
  4. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    24,219
    Ratings:
    +9,501
    Religion:
    Beyond the Light
    They could indeed issue a lengthy report to the city council that doesn't actually say very much. You know, sort of like how long-winded politicians can manage to speak for hours but say nothing.
     
  5. Quetzal

    Quetzal A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Messages:
    6,266
    Ratings:
    +4,559
    #5 Quetzal, Jun 19, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
  6. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    19,971
    Ratings:
    +6,521
    Religion:
    ecumenical/unaffiliated/attend wife's Catholic church
    ...owned by Murdock.

    I'm suspicious of its accuracy as well and would seek confirmation from other sources before blindly believing in anything Murdock's publications state. But, as it stands, I have no particular interest in this thread.
     
  7. esmith

    esmith Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Messages:
    8,889
    Ratings:
    +926
    Religion:
    No name designated at this time.
    then why did you interject yourself into the thread?
     
  8. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    19,971
    Ratings:
    +6,521
    Religion:
    ecumenical/unaffiliated/attend wife's Catholic church
    To try and drive you nuts, but I've seen that others have beat me to it. :p
     
  9. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,550
    Ratings:
    +657
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    They're claiming that it's "overreach," and that may be so, although there was a quote from the article that did cause me to take notice:

    How much can the public actually trust the police anyway? I don't think we should give away any state secrets or compromise law enforcement's ability to protect us from terrorism. But I also think we have a system of checks and balances just because no one individual or organization should be trusted that much.

    Another point raised is that civilians control the police department, not the other way around. The biggest problems seem to arise when one of their own goes bad. Then there's also a lack of transparency, which seems to be an ongoing problem whenever there's any kind of police-related shooting.

    I'm not even sure if this kind of secrecy is really all that reassuring, at least in terms of protecting the public from terrorism or other bad guys out there. How secure is the NYPD? For quite a long period of time, they were under the thumb of organized crime through bribery and other methods of persuasion. Is it possible that some mole or operative from a terrorist organization, criminal network, or foreign spy agency could be operating within NYPD? Wouldn't they already know the technologies available and the methods and practices of police departments?

    A lot of things that have been kept secret are/were things the "enemy" already knew about, so is the culture of top secrecy really about keeping information from "the enemy" or is it to merely keep it from the people? Or are the people now the enemy of the government?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. esmith

    esmith Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Messages:
    8,889
    Ratings:
    +926
    Religion:
    No name designated at this time.
    it doesn't take much nowdays
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. esmith

    esmith Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Messages:
    8,889
    Ratings:
    +926
    Religion:
    No name designated at this time.
    Terrorist have a fast learning curve when it comes to defeating safeguards. If you released the tools being used, you have given the advantage to the terrorist.
     
  12. esmith

    esmith Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Messages:
    8,889
    Ratings:
    +926
    Religion:
    No name designated at this time.
    Let's take a serious look at the facts presented by the article vice your condemnation of the source because you don't like what they have to say.
    Now be forewarned, I am going to use some language and tactics that Democrats, especially far left Democrats like to use.
    Ready?
    Here goes
    What we have here are two members of the NYC City Council, along with fifteen other members that are supporters of terrorist, either by their stupidity ( typical for your coastal Democrats) or trying to make a name for themselves. This is typical of the we-no-nothing about what we are talking about but we are smarter than everyone else Democrats
    Fact: The council’s Public Oversight of Surveillance Technology Act would require the NYPD to issue reports on what kinds of spy equipment police use — such as license-plate readers, cellphone trackers and X-ray vans used to peer through walls — as well how the department stores and protects private information collected.
    Fact: Fifteen members of the City Council are co-signers of the bill
    Fact: One of the writers of the bill said they were willing to revise the bill with more input from the NYPD.
    Fact: Mayor de Blasio believes the legislation is a non-starter, according to spokesman Austin Finan.

    Now this shows the stupidity of those that wrote the bill. They didn't have the brains to go to the NYPD and ask for input before writing the bill. But after being told they are basically **** -for-brains they backtracked.
    Now I will revert back to the kindly old gentleman that I am.

    Now @tytlyf please explain why you do not accept the article, other than you have nothing else to do. There are no opinions expressed by the author of the article, they only reported what was said by other parties. Seems that you have a problem with accepting facts that you don't like.
     
    #12 esmith, Jun 19, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. Quetzal

    Quetzal A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Messages:
    6,266
    Ratings:
    +4,559
    I agree, sensitive information needs to be protected.
     
  14. tytlyf

    tytlyf The Mind's Eye

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,110
    Ratings:
    +994
    I never made a comment on the article of supporting it or not. I pointed out your source which is a tabloid outlet known for leaving out context and important information relevant to the topic at hand.

    I do agree that this may expose technologies and techniques used for spying, but there's also a constitutional angle. Civil liberties. How would the public know if law enforcement agencies are abusing these powers? It's a double edged sword.
     
  15. esmith

    esmith Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Messages:
    8,889
    Ratings:
    +926
    Religion:
    No name designated at this time.
    By your comment you insinuated that the story was not valid because you are saying that the source is invalid; nice try but squirming doesn't work.
     
    #15 esmith, Jun 19, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
  16. tytlyf

    tytlyf The Mind's Eye

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,110
    Ratings:
    +994
    True, but I didn't comment on the story. I commented on your source. If you want people to take you seriously, you have to use credible sources.
     
  17. esmith

    esmith Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Messages:
    8,889
    Ratings:
    +926
    Religion:
    No name designated at this time.
    I'm playing the bull**** card on that.
    As far as credible sources I could care less what you do or do not consider credible because the only "credible" source you recognize is a source that agrees with you.
     
  18. tytlyf

    tytlyf The Mind's Eye

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,110
    Ratings:
    +994
    Nope, I'm not interested in agreement. I'm interested in facts. Sometimes facts don't feel good.

    Stop posting fake news sources.
     
  19. esmith

    esmith Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Messages:
    8,889
    Ratings:
    +926
    Religion:
    No name designated at this time.
    The facts that don't feel good to you are the ones you disagree with.
     
  20. tytlyf

    tytlyf The Mind's Eye

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,110
    Ratings:
    +994
    I don't create threads with fake news. Your sources are known to be fake news. You'll claim it's liberal lame stream media deciding that your sources are fake news. The circle goes round and round. Do you know what propaganda is?

    Know how Hitler brainwashed millions of people?
    Hitler’s Guide to Propaganda – The Psychology of Coercion | Brain Blogger

    Can you spot the propaganda in this video?
     
    #20 tytlyf, Jun 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
Loading...