Has Buddhism influenced Christianity ?

[Tumah]

Well, the reason I baulk at letting this theory bite the dust , is because the similarities do not seem to stop at mere moral codes and ethical injunctions.

Not only does it not limit to morality, it is also pervasive through the biography of both the men.

To strictly follow chronology , I would request you to examine the birth of Jesus and Buddha first. I dont want to take too much at a time


Compare the names of the mothers-- Queen Maya and Ma(r)ya.[FONT=&quot]
Mâyâ was later regarded as a virgin[/FONT] and King Suddhodhana as a stepfather, just like Joseph.

Both of them are visited by celestial beings (an angel and a white elephant who foretells the birth of the savior )

Buddha is born while his mother is in a travel, under a tree. Jesus is also born while in travel.

Buddha emits a dazzling light and Jesus elicits a blue star.
Buddha receives homage from Gandharvas and Devas in the Sky. Jesus gets homage from angels in the sky.

Buddha is called son of God (devaputra), descended from Brahma. Jesus also claims lineage from "Abraham".Compare the names "Abraham" and "Brahma"

Both are thus of royal descent. Jesus is called son of David and Buddha is of the great Ishkavu dynasty

Wise men gather in both cases.

In a text called Nidhanakatha, a noble woman says of the Budhda "[FONT=&quot]Verily, that mother is blessed, who has given birth to a man like this one"[/FONT].
Luke 11.27 talks of a woman who praises Mary --"[FONT=&quot]Blessed is the womb, that bare thee and the paps which thou hast suckled."[/FONT]


Of course, there are differences like Maya dying seven days later . But I do think all the above are too protruding from the coincidental.

I think the nae similarity is more coincidental than anything. Marry is the English of Miriam, which doesn't sound quite the same as Maya.

Also, I don't think comparing Jesus' lineage to Abraham with Buddha from Brahma makes sense. The NT doesn't start until way after Genesis. It would make a lot more sense if Genesis was already mentioning Jesus. The way you have it, you're really just singling out a name that sounds similar from a long list of ancestors.

But other than that, I think the similarities are uncanny and definitely raise a question in my eyes. That the NT authors lifted stories from other religions is clear, I think. Whether they got some ideas from Buddhism, or whether Buddhism and other Roman theology stemmed from similar sources, I think there is definitely something here.

 

[Agnimitra]

I think the nae similarity is more coincidental than anything. Marry is the English of Miriam, which doesn't sound quite the same as Maya.It would seem that the word "Maryam" was chosen specifically to sound like Maya

Also, I don't think comparing Jesus' lineage to Abraham with Buddha from Brahma makes sense. The NT doesn't start until way after Genesis. It would make a lot more sense if Genesis was already mentioning Jesus. The way you have it, you're really just singling out a name that sounds similar from a long list of ancestors.

.

I am not sure if linguists would agree that "Maya" and "Maryam" have nothing in common.Note the fact that we are referring to the NT which was written in Greek and thus does not carry the details of Aramaic pronunciations.


The similarity between Brahma and Abraham makes perfect sense ---even if you
ignore Buddha and Jesus and the entire NT.

Unlike this theory, I am fairly convinced that "Abraham " the Progenitor of Jewish tribes is an adaptation of "Brahma" the progenitor in Vedic culture .

The influence came through the Hittite tribes. And mind you , the similarities are not just in the names....even the wives Sarah/Saraswathi, the maid Hagar/Haggar among other things.

But lets not set off on a tangent

 

[crossfire]

<...>

The similarity between Brahma and Abraham makes perfect sense ---even if you
ignore Buddha and Jesus and the entire NT.

Unlike this theory, I am fairly convinced that "Abraham " the Progenitor of Jewish tribes is an adaptation of "Brahma" the progenitor in Vedic culture .

The influence came through the Hittite tribes. And mind you , the similarities are not just in the names....even the wives Sarah/Saraswathi, the maid Hagar/Haggar among other things.

But lets not set off on a tangent

Well, there is the story in Genesis about Abraham sending his sons from his late-life wife Keturah to the east after they grew up.

 

[Agnimitra]

Well, there is the story in Genesis about Abraham sending his sons from his late-life wife Keturah to the east after they grew up.

Well, haven't read the old testament since I stopped those Catechism classes. Even the NT I read only as part of this influence theory.....


Though I cant remember the exact chapter, but the OT does mention the Hittite rulers of Babylon, who were Indo Aryan Vedic people who worshipped Vedic Gods including Brahma.

 

[crossfire]

Well, haven't read the old testament since I stopped those Catechism classes. Even the NT I read only as part of this influence theory.....


Though I cant remember the exact chapter, but the OT does mention the Hittite rulers of Babylon, who were Indo Aryan Vedic people who worshipped Vedic Gods including Brahma.

One thing you might be missing: Buddhism is not Hinduism. Buddhism rejects any authority connected to the Vedas. Buddhism also rejects Hindu ritual.

 

[Agnimitra]

One thing you might be missing: Buddhism is not Hinduism. Buddhism rejects any authority connected to the Vedas. Buddhism also rejects Hindu ritual.

That has no relevance to the present contention.

However, rejection of the Vedic authority does not mean it has no connection to the Vedas or Vedic Ethics or Philosophy. The Vedas contain the seeds of almost all Buddhist concepts including Nihilism.

Also note that Buddhist Philosophy predates the Buddha himself.Vedas themselves reject Vedic ritual many times in the Upanishas portions.


Please dont assume that I accept "divine" Vedic Authority though.......:bow:

 

[Tumah]

I am not sure if linguists would agree that "Maya" and "Maryam" have nothing in common.Note the fact that we are referring to the NT which was written in Greek and thus does not carry the details of Aramaic pronunciations.

You are trying to force the spelling here. The pronunciation in Hebrew is MiRYaM. And that is a name already present in the Bible long before the NT was written. It's true that the NT was written in Greek and not Hebrew/Aramaic, but I think its more likely that they would take a Hebrew to Greekify than an Indian one.

The similarity between Brahma and Abraham makes perfect sense ---even if you
ignore Buddha and Jesus and the entire NT.

Unlike this theory, I am fairly convinced that "Abraham " the Progenitor of Jewish tribes is an adaptation of "Brahma" the progenitor in Vedic culture .

The influence came through the Hittite tribes. And mind you , the similarities are not just in the names....even the wives Sarah/Saraswathi, the maid Hagar/Haggar among other things.

But lets not set off on a tangent

Whether this is true or not, the question was how Buddhism may have influenced Christianity, not Judaism.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Let's look at the founder of Christianity, given the cultural character of Jesus I highly doubt he would be accepting of what he would have considered heathen doctrines. He taught nothing that resembled Buddhism in any way. Like the Dalai Lama once said you are "trying to put a yak's head on a cow's body"

 

[Agnimitra]

You are trying to force the spelling here. The pronunciation in Hebrew is MiRYaM. And that is a name already present in the Bible long before the NT was written. It's true that the NT was written in Greek and not Hebrew/Aramaic, but I think its more likely that they would take a Hebrew to Greekify than an Indian one.

Here's the shocker.......it is almost certain that there is no Aramaic intermediate manuscript between the Greek gospels and the Sanskrit MSV + SDP. It was a direct transposition from Sanskrit to Greek as evidenced by the almost impossible puns and syllabic veracity.


And I am saying that the Greek knowing authors of the NT specifically chose the name Miryam because of its lingual proximity to Maya.

Whether this is true or not, the question was how Buddhism may have influenced Christianity, not Judaism.

Finally we agree on something. Lets no discuss unnecessary things

 

[Agnimitra]

Let's look at the founder of Christianity, given the cultural character of Jesus I highly doubt he would be accepting of what he would have considered heathen doctrines. He taught nothing that resembled Buddhism in any way. Like the Dalai Lama once said you are "trying to put a yak's head on a cow's body"

"Heathen doctrines" was a concept not once mentioned by Jesus. We are not free to choose what he would accept or reject. Considering how very little of what he did or said does not have a Buddhist prototype, I dont think we know anything actually historical about him.


I wouldn't be so sure that there is nothing in resemblance. There is not a single parable of the NT that isn't already there in the Lotus sutra.

 

[Jainarayan]

And I am saying that the Greek knowing authors of the NT specifically chose the name Miryam because of its lingual proximity to Maya.

Well, from that bastion and paragon of knowledge Wikipedia:

Maya is a feminine name with multiple meanings. In Hindu philosophy, M&#257;y&#257; means "illusion" and in Hindu mythology, it is also an alternate name of the Hindu goddess Durga. According to tradition, Queen M&#257;y&#257; of Sakya was also the name of the mother of Siddartha Gautama, the Buddha. In Hebrew, the name Maya (&#1502;&#1463;&#1497;&#1464;&#1468;&#1492;/&#1502;&#1488;&#1497;&#1492; in Hebrew) is a short form of "ma'ayan," meaning "spring" or "brook." In Old Persian the name means "generous." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(given_name)

The name may have originated from the Egyptian mry "beloved" or mr "love"[2] or the derived ancient Egyptian name Meritamen or Meri-Amun, "beloved of the God Amun".[3] Other suggestions include the word root m-r-r "bitter" (cf. myrrh), or the Hebrew root (&#1502;&#1512;&#1497; m-r-y) "rebellious", or even possibly "wished-for child", or "strong waters". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryam_(name)

Sanskrit is Indoeuropean; Hebrew, Arabic, and Ancient Egyptian are Afroasiatic. Absolutely no linguistic familial connections can be made by linguists... and they do try.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

"Heathen doctrines" was a concept not once mentioned by Jesus. We are not free to choose what he would accept or reject. Considering how very little of what he did or said does not have a Buddhist prototype, I dont think we know anything actually historical about him.


I wouldn't be so sure that there is nothing in resemblance. There is not a single parable of the NT that isn't already there in the Lotus sutra.

Jesus said quite a few things about heathen doctrines and heathens too, and often they weren't very nice. Jesus for one resented the practice of elaborate prayers to God, he called it the practice of pagans and that his followers should not do it. While he admired the faith of those who were not of his own faith (Judaism), he also felt they were lost sheep and they needed reconciliation with God.

Jesus was not a Buddhist, he was a Jew. Even if he was exposed to Buddhism, he would have rejected it. His ideas and teachings are the teaching of a Jewish man, his ideas are rooted in the soil of the Middle East and Mediterranean region.

 

[Agnimitra]

Sanskrit is Indoeuropean; Hebrew, Arabic, and Ancient Egyptian are Afroasiatic. Absolutely no linguistic familial connections can be made by linguists... and they do try.

The Evangelists dont seem to have gone that deep. They seem more interested in the sound and sense.

Maya/Miryam is not the only imitation

Triratna/Trinity (Sanga, dharma and Buddha)

Simon Peter/Sari Putra

Stavron/Vastrani-----Stavron is the Greek word for cross. Vesture and Vest are derived from the latter

Rosarium/Japamala--Both meaning garland of flowers. Even today, Indian Christians use the word Japamala for Rosary. Little do they know its the original.The Sanskrit japa-mâlâ, a garland for recitation, was taken as a japâ-mâlâ, a garland of roses. The “original” reading is, of course, japa, not japâ

[FONT=&quot]´Iê-sou Khris-tou[/FONT]/Ksha-tri-yas-ya. Jesus is called Ho Kristos in the Greek original. Buddha is called a Kshatriya. Note the numerical value equality of the names.The syllables and consonants of the original Sanskrit have been preserved.

Testament/Tathagata .The Greek is hê kainê diathêkê.
This is a translation of the Sanskrit Tathâgatasya kâyam.The NT is the "Body of the Tathagata"[FONT=&quot]. The hê is intended so that all the 7 syllables of the original are preserved[/FONT]. [FONT=&quot], Sanskrit ksa-tri-yas is translated as ho khris-tos[/FONT]

refer Michael Lockwood, Buddhisms relation to christianity, Chennai (India) 2011, p. 250

Kapilavastu/Kapharnaoum ---Note the similarity of events occurring in both places

Ouranon/Nirvana---[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ response to a man who calls him good master (ti-agathon) before asking him how to live forever. The Greek word translated as ‘forever’ [/FONT]


THERE ARE TONS MORE OF SUCH PUNS AND SIMILARITIES.

But this must be enough, I believe I have made my point.

 

[Agnimitra]

Dr. Lindtner points out many number equivalences behind key terms in both faiths.

Here are a few;(from the same source)

Kayam-Tathagata = 888
Jesus = 888
Maitreya=666
Pundarika=666(Ptolemy=666, the Ptolemy Philadelphius who attempted to fuse Judaism and Greek religion with Buddhism.)
Sakyamuni = 932
Jesus&#8217; to haima mou, &#8216;of my blood&#8217; = 932

This number game was called Gematria by ancient Greeks and Sophia among ancient Jews.


I admit that I dont quite understand it myself.I would be grateful if someone helped me.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Dr. Lindtner points out many number equivalences behind key terms in both faiths.

Here are a few;(from the same source)

Kayam-Tathagata = 888
Jesus = 888
Maitreya=666
Pundarika=666(Ptolemy=666, the Ptolemy Philadelphius who attempted to fuse Judaism and Greek religion with Buddhism.)
Sakyamuni = 932
Jesus’ to haima mou, ‘of my blood’ = 932

This number game was called Gematria by ancient Greeks and Sophia among ancient Jews.


I admit that I dont quite understand it myself.I would be grateful if someone helped me.

Apophenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jainarayan]

Simon Peter/Sari Putra
...

But this must be enough, I believe I have made my point.

Not so fast ... there is a flaw. Simon is from Shimon, his given name; Peter is from Greek Petros, an epithet given to him by Jesus. These names were anglicized to Simon Peter. I do not believe he was ever referred to as Shimon Petros. They are two names from two unrelated languages, whereas &#346;&#257;riputra is one name, meaning child/son of &#346;&#257;ri. I think this comparison is a long reach, at best.

I'll concede and reverse myself (even the SCOTUS does that ) that there may have been cross-pollination of ideas between east and west, though it was over several thousand miles. However, I think there is no small amount of pareidolia in these examples.

 

[Jainarayan]

Apophenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That too.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I love Buddhism, I used to not like it because of exactly this, because people tried to make it look like my faith and Buddhism were the same thing, as if we were thieves. But now I like it. Buddhism as it's own unique story to tell, but it is so with Christianity to. The thing is we just have to listen to each others telling.

 

[Agnimitra]

Not so fast ... there is a flaw. Simon is from Shimon, his given name; Peter is from Greek Petros, an epithet given to him by Jesus. These names were anglicized to Simon Peter. I do not believe he was ever referred to as Shimon Petros. They are two names from two unrelated languages, whereas &#346;&#257;riputra is one name, meaning child/son of &#346;&#257;ri. I think this comparison is a long reach, at best.

.

I think you are looking for the wrong kind of connection. Why do you aimlessly state the obvious? Aramaic and Sanskrit are two unrelated languages. Yes, I know.But their inter-relation is not a pre-requisite for proving Buddhist influence, as there never was an Aramaic intermediate NT text , nor does the Gospel authors seem concerned about the literal meanings,nor were they acting out of originality to require literal meaning, nor did they know or care about language families. They were THOROUGHLY meticulous with the numerical values , thats what they were concerned about.


Who was Sari Putra?----Buddhas Chief disciple
Who was Simon Peter-----Jesus' Chief disciple
What is the numerical value or Gemetria of Peter and Putra?----729 exactly
Does their name sound similiar?---yes
Did they watch their master walking on water?---yes


There are the right questions and the relevant connections we need to seek.
The Gospel authors cant be expected to be aware of language families.


As for the lady who thinks I am apophenic or whatever, I would like to know what she would think of me if I start comparing word for word the Parables, major events and the Passion and temptation narratives

Trust me Maam.....I know what I am talking about, and I am not confused, only seeking to be thorough.:band:

 

[Franscetic44]

I don't believe that they are so much as influential on each other, but rather just similar paths taken by many other spiritual leaders, possibly influenced by a collective Unconscious? (Carl Jung). In addition to the lives of Jesus and Buddha, there are other religious figures that have undergone strikingly similar journeys:

Francesco Bernadone (St. Francis) was also born into a very affluent and wealthy family, with a very spiritual, non-materialistic mother (yin to his father's yang). Similar to the Buddha's four passing sights, Francis underwent stages of desperate revelry, becoming a knight, becoming a fervent defender of the faith, and then figuratively and literally stripping down before his God and renouncing his wealth and family ties (asceticism). Before this final renouncement, Francis descends into the "occulta fovea" or pit inside the San Damiano Church, where he stayed for 40 days, undergoing what Russian Orthodox Christians call a "Poustinia" translating to "Desert". Francis then goes on to live a life characterized by Poverty, Simplicity, and Humility. Similar to both Christ's and Buddha's teachings. So similar, that Francis received the Stigmata during the final years of his life. IMO, Francis is who Catholics, or Christians, or anybody really, should try to emulate in their lives.

Similarities can also be found by studying the lives of Muhammad (going to the desert, Angel Gabriel), Guru Nanak (vision during albutions, disappears for three days), Moses (leaves Egypt for the desert, Burning Bush, returns with message from God and deliverance). The list goes on. The fact of the matter is, regardless of ones creed, there are many similarities among the lives of the spiritual greats, some more striking than others. But they are all essential to the spiritual development of themselves, and later their followers.