YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Given that life is so often unfair why would one assume that a god was just?
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Has anybody ever put themselves in God's shoes?
- Thread starter osgart
- Start date
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
In this world I make no such assumptions.
The God of our food chain, the hunter and the hunted. I ain't really buying into God's set up , personally. I'll pray right on past this god.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Fortunately, I have no use for any god concepts. They really are obsolete ideas that need to die. The sooner, the better.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
to see from God's point of view is not that difficult
but most are waiting for ....proof of God
wrong starting point......simply that
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
So I asked the right question!
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Thief
Rogue Theologian
and let's keep this going for several weeks.....if we can
*sighs*
It's hard for me to believe you're so empathetic you can speak with authority on what God thinks when you can't even fathom an atheist, who is (after all) a member of the same species as you.
Let's say God is a given. My point stands regardless. There is an interesting level of hubris involved in all this.
(not speaking about you specifically here)
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Hubris in the concept of God?
Or that God believers, don't consider non believers to be empathetic?
Given that those are the qualifications, then no human has any concept of what it is like to be God. To even hazard a guess would be pointless.
"All knowing" would indicate that he knows what he is doing even when we don't, and we can't fathom why he is doing things the way he is.
That is not a fault on God's part, but on ours. He is asking us to trust him because this is all leading somewhere.
"Completely just" would mean that he is not capable of injustice, so we must trust the first aspect....he knows what he is doing so that he can achieve the desired end result that he designed this creation for.
"With keys to all the important powers" would mean that he can utilize those powers when, and wherever he needs to in order to bring about the desired end result.....so what is that end result that all this miserable human history is leading to?
Go back to Eden and ask....."what was God's first purpose in putting humans and other creatures on a very well prepared planet in a very small part of one galaxy, in very vast universe?"
1) Along with all the myriad lifeforms that he created, God made only one in his own image and likeness....us.
What did that mean? In his instructions, only given to man, he told them to fill the planet with their kind and make the whole world like the Garden of Eden. He designed only humans to live forever and to be caretakers of all that he had made. They were to be his representatives and to monitor and look after the planet and all its creatures. Not a bad job considering how much we as a species like to be creative. With strong physical bodies, designed for work, the task was huge, but they had forever to complete it....and with an ever increasing workforce, the job would eventually be completed.....what then?
He told the humans to "fill the earth" so when that had been accomplished.....what do you think his next move would be? Its a big universe! What is to prevent the Creator making other planets habitable and starting new colonies? Again, if eternity is before us, imagine the possibilities!
2) So what went wrong with this "Plan A"?
Nothing that the Creator had not already planned for. You see, the 7th day when God rested from his creative works was set aside to deal with whatever situation might arise as a result of humans learning to drive the free will he gave to them.
The creative days were not 24 hour periods but eons of universal time in the realm where God resides. He took time and care to make everything "very good", but it needed testing like all new ventures. Instead of preempting what would happen, God allowed the humans to experience the full consequences of their own actions by the exercise of their free will. By declaring that everything was "very good" from his standpoint, we can be sure that everything was on track for a great outcome. The 7th day was yet to begin.
Whilst on duty in the Garden of Eden, an angelic creature (a Cherub, used in the role of guardians) began to entertain some wrong ambitions. Up until the creation of man, there were no other creatures in the universe that were lower than angels. There was no point in entertaining any ambitions to be "like God" because all other creatures were his equal. Now there were lower creatures who could see a powerful angel like himself as a god. He saw his chance and he took it. We know the rest.
So here was another creature who exercised his free will in a wrong way and set off a chain of events that has led us to where we are now. Not only did he lead humans into rebellion, but other angelic creatures joined him as well. He got his wish....to be a god to humans and a leader of other angels. But for how long?
3) How did God respond?
He waited to see what the humans had to say for themselves and judged them on their response. Instead of being remorseful, they each blamed someone else. The woman blamed the snake and the man blamed the woman and then shifted the blame to God for giving her to him. There was only one way to settle this...not by taking the rebels out of existence (because that would only have proven that God is more powerful....the devil never challenged God's power...he knew better)....instead he challenged God's Sovereign right to set reasonable limits on the activities of his human creation....and then, he accused God of lying, saying that the penalty did not apply.
The woman fell for the story and broke God's law....the man wasn't deceived at all but was made to choose between his wife and his God....the devil divided his loyalty and banked on the fact that he would choose the wife he had waited so long for.
The intervening time has allowed the world to be "filled" to its present capacity and each and every humans who has lived has made a name for themselves with God in some way.
All who have died in the past are promised a resurrection because from ancient times God's purpose was in its outworking and the majority of humankind have never had an opportunity to get to know God or his Christ....they will be given that opportunity.
At this point in time however, the human race have reached a pinnacle of sorts. In our time there is no longer an excuse for ignorance. With communication technology available all over the world, people can access information, the likes of which were unheard of in the past. This is a judgment period and the Bible indicates that the majority now can find out everything they need or want to know about God....about religion....about what they can expect in the future as man continues to become more and more secular and materially minded.
I believe that the end is approaching, when God will bring his purpose full circle. What mankind lost at the start will be restored, but those who gain it will have proven that they can handle free will responsibly. They have passed the test and will be rewarded for their efforts to please God in a world intent on pleasing itself.
That is my take on things from 45 years of Bible study. It's been an exciting journey.
Jedster
Well-Known Member
I think its rather arrogent to suppose anyone could put on the shoes of a deity considering there is absolutely no frame of reference to what size shoes (sarcasm) he/she/it wears.
LOL... what I do know is that when I physically was in God's shoes (having complete control over my life) - I knew how to mess it up!
The message of Jesus answered the above questions for me.
-- humans have control of that... no real news on satellite tv.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
No one can put himself in God's shoes, because we are finite while God is infinite. Still, in interpreting scripture it can be useful to reason about God. Without scripture one has no idea of what God would be like.
Derek500
Wish I could change this to AUD
Not really, If I were omni-everything an appearence on sat tv all over the world every day would not take much of an effort. And I can still rest on the sixth or seventh day to get a proper hair-cut!