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Happy Halloween and Satanic

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Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
People, stop replying to the troll and just report them. It's dragging the thread off topic and you'll never get anywhere with them so don't bother.
 

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
All Saints and All Souls existed before they moved the celebration to the end of October and beginning of November in the 8th century and I believe the Celts had already converted by that time. They didn't just make it up out of thin air to replace Samhain. And the actual Masses that take place have nothing to do with Celtic polytheism or customs. The Catholic Church is global, after all, and of course local customs become mixed into introduced religions. Unlike puritan sects like the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Catholic and Orthodox Churches does not demand that you abandon your heritage or all of your culture to join. It views the diversity in ethnicity and cultures as being from God and a gift. So it strives to take the good elements and nurture those. Not raze everything to the ground. At least that is how they are supposed to act. Obviously they haven't always lived up to that. A similar thing happened to Buddhism all over Asia. Buddhist monks went on missions all over Asia and converted people and the new religion was mixed in with the existing cultures.

All martyrs and saints day which goes back to the 4th century may have started as a holiday in late May or early June but Pope Gregory IV transferred it in the 800's to November 1st the time of the Samhain festival which was continued to be celebrated by the Irish. They were still celebrating the festival of Samhain with its pre-Christian like rituals. The celebration on Samhain was not the same as the Original All Saints celebration and the carryover to the Halloween celebration shows the distinction. All souls day is a different celebration starting in 993 at the monastery in Cluny. The gods and goddesses names may have been replaced early on but the rituals and sacred places persisted. The church actively converted these persisting rituals and sacred places in to Christian ones. If you want to celebrate the original All Saints day do it in late May or early June, If you want to celebrate the converted Samhain celebration and it meaning then celebrated it on Halloween.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
All martyrs and saints day which goes back to the 4th century may have started as a holiday in late May or early June but Pope Gregory IV transferred it in the 800's to November 1st the time of the Samhain festival which was continued to be celebrated by the Irish. They were still celebrating the festival of Samhain with its pre-Christian like rituals. The celebration on Samhain was not the same as the Original All Saints celebration and the carryover to the Halloween celebration shows the distinction. All souls day is a different celebration starting in 993 at the monastery in Cluny. The gods and goddesses names may have been replaced early on but the rituals and sacred places persisted. The church actively converted these persisting rituals and sacred places in to Christian ones. If you want to celebrate the original All Saints day do it in late May or early June, If you want to celebrate the converted Samhain celebration and it meaning then celebrated it on Halloween.
What exactly is your point? That Halloween is "pagan" or whatever? If you want to celebrate Samhain, do it. I don't really care what you want to call it. I had in mind fundie Christians who think Halloween is some "evil" "pagan" or "satanic" thing and was trying to point out that it's a Christian holiday. I get tired of their attitudes and anti-Catholicism when it comes to those things.
 
You, and many other Christians, do and have factually judged me by judging my to not have actually been a Christian.

I accused you of judging me because you judged me, without even knowing me. It is not unusual for Christians to judge me as having not really worshipped Jehovah or not really being a Christian--such as you have--because I was miserable as a Christian, because I left the Church, didn't believe the same things as they do (you yourself will be judged by some Christians as not being a "true Christian" for adhering to the Hellfire doctrine), and ceased identifying as a Christian. That's basically all any of you know, yet you feel confident enough to judge.

No, you twisted that around yourself to try to get something I didn't say or claim. I pointed out it is not by works we are saved - thus implying that we can still be good and moral people even without the "grace and faith" part.
And what does it really say of people like you, who claim Christians do good because they are filled with the Holy Spirit? Is religion really the only reason you do good? Me, I just do good: I don't need a religion to tell me to help others and refrain from anti-social behaviors. It wasn't the Holy Ghost, after all, that moved me to go into health care, and it's not the Holy Ghost that gave me a great deal of satisfaction of actually helping people and attempting to fix the world more than I broke it.


I depend on god for nothing.

So, god gave me an emotionally abusive and totalitarian mother and an alcoholic father who walked out on night? Do you also want to claim god gave me deformed knees and shins, Aspergers, severe major depression, and social anxiety? Did god give me bullies and fake friends?
What I have I have because I worked for it. God didn't give me a diploma. He didn't give me a car. He isn't giving me a house. The sheets and pillows on my bed? The food I eat? Farmers, factory workers, and truck drivers have given me more than god has.


I have created art, stories, poems, and song. And I didn't know motivating people and helping them to make positive changes in their lives was considered wicked.
I'm not judging you by pointing out what the Bible says, I know the Bible is highly offensive to unbelievers because it exposes the truth about them and they find it extremely difficult to face the truth.

The cold harsh truth is, we are all born as fallen sinners. We all gravitate to living a life of rebellion and sin against God and we get worse and worse as we get older, none of us would ever repent if God didn't draw us to Himself. So only those who God draws to Himself will repent and God will convert them into His saints by giving them the gift of His holy Spirit.

Everything you say sounds perfectly normal and good to a carnal person, but those of us who have the Holy Spirit see everything from Gods perspective and we see straight through to the soul of a person. God has opened our spiritual eyes so we can no longer be deceived by the powers of Darkness.

Every person who relies on their own wisdom and understanding WILL be deceived by Satan and His Demons, they are thousands of years old and they have super intelligence and powers to deceive. Nobody can escape their trap unless the Holy Spirit protects them from the lies.

I'm not here to make myself sound better than you in any way, I'm sharing what has been revealed to me because I would love you to be illuminated by the truth which will set you free from bondage to deception.
 
How would that make you feel, to see me in Heaven? You can say I wasn't a true believer all you want, but I was. It might be hard to wrap your brain around, but it was indeed the case.

He had to endure it because that is what God himself set up and demanded. The Bible doesn't even consider other alternatives discussed, only that god immediately jumped to a blood sacrifice. If he's truly omnipotent, it didn't have to be that way.


It is only god who decided it should be that way. And he didn't even give us the option to shed our own blood, but rather expects us to feel guilty because he took it upon himself to come up with that system, send himself to go through it, all because that is what he wanted.

It reminds me of the "archeologist" who was looking for Troy, but was so determined to do things his way and get to things that he ended up discovering a city that wasn't Troy because he blasted right through Troy. It only happened because that is how that archeologist wanted things to be.

Not even the Bible supports that claim.


What is three days to an immortal?
I would be very glad to see you in heaven but you can only get there on gods terms, you can't change or influence anything about the way God ordained things to be. All you can do is repent, believe and obey. You were created by God and you fully belong to Him, so as His property you have no right to do what you want.

I wouldn't concern myself with all of the details about Christs Crucifixion and suffering, at this point. You should consider the most important thing and deal with it first, before you ask questions about the details of His crucifixion.

Jesus said that those who have fallen away should start over again, dump your baggage and come back to the Lord afresh. Try to pout the past behind you and look to the Lord for forgiveness and acceptance, deal witht eh main issue first and there will be plenty of time to address the other issues in time.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I'm not here to make myself sound better than you in any way, I'm sharing what has been revealed to me because I would love you to be illuminated by the truth which will set you free from bondage to deception.
I was set myself free from bondage and deception when I freed myself from the shackles of Jehovah's rule of tyranny.
And deceived? Of what good would it serve for Lucifer to deceive one of his own? It's not like he has to hide from me, disguise himself, or lie to me.
The cold harsh truth is, we are all born as fallen sinners.
The only ones who are sinners, the only ones who are burdened and weighed down by sin, are those who are obsessed with sin and those who accept the burden and guilt and shame of sin. To those of us who do not ascribe to this concept of sin, are lives are not burdened by sin because we simply do not accept it or consider it.
We all gravitate to living a life of rebellion and sin against God and we get worse and worse as we get older,
That would be wrong again. 10 years ago I was lucky I didn't get caught. Today jay walking is about the only crime I commit. Sin? I haven't sinned in about 16 years. My "time line" even shows the further I got away from god I got, the less intoxicated I am over all and I don't drink to drunkenness anymore. After a change in environment, I'm finding it hard to find hatred in myself to fuel my art that was a outlet of my anger and hatred.

So only those who God draws to Himself will repent and God will convert them into His saints by giving them the gift of His holy Spirit.
So I must be St. Devil Girl or something like that? A "triple agent" who doesn't even know they are a double agent? Or did god just need someone to keep his flock on their feet by sending out someone to become a lioness who will devour the sheep if they aren't sharp enough or start to stray and wonder?
(some Christians describe me more in the former, as a "sheep that Christ is allowing to wonder for awhile before he calls me back.")
verything you say sounds perfectly normal and good to a carnal person, but those of us who have the Holy Spirit see everything from Gods perspective and we see straight through to the soul of a person. God has opened our spiritual eyes so we can no longer be deceived by the powers of Darkness.
You are failing miserably at that "not trying to sound better than you" thing, as you sound like a pretentious twat.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Yes Jesus came to seek the lost, the healthy don't need a physician.
Preventative care is the best care. The healthy do need a doctor to help keep them healthy, because healthy or unhealthy people don't know blood levels of various things (such as cholesterol and blood sugar), and though they may be healthy now they may not be able to know of a coming problem. A healthy person seeing a physician for wellness checkups is a great way to keep a healthy person healthy, as it provides them with a guide of how to help stay healthy.
I would be very glad to see you in heaven but you can only get there on gods terms
Did you ever consider some of us don't want in on his terms?

You were created by God
Pretty sure my mom created me, with a bit of help from my dad.

you fully belong to Him, so as His property you have no right to do what you want.
I belong to no one. I am no one's property. I own myself. No one else does.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Yes of' course they are some of the most moral people you know according to your private judgement, the problem is you may be a reprobate and the judgement of a reprobate comes from a totally depraved mind so it has no authority or power. It's is absolutely meaningless and impotent and it has no baring on anything and no value at all.
Hmmm... the commission on ministry in my denomination, it’s leaders and the rest of the denomination, the hospital where I did my clinical pastoral training, my graduate seminary, the many clergy colleagues from many denominations with whom I’ve worked, the people and communities I’ve served, the professionals who did my psychological evaluations prior to ordination, my spiritual directors, my grandfather, mother and father who were all clergy, my many Christian friends, and, most importantly, God, don’t seem to think that I’m either reprobate or depraved.

And I think it’s both ballsy and disrespectful for you to suggest otherwise publicly, just so you can continue to delude yourself that you have all the answers.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
everyone who believes in Him and has faith in Him will do good works because His Holy Spirit comes into them and leads them into all righteousness so they will do good works.
And yet, priests who believe rape little boys. Evangelists who believe fleece gullible people. Congress people who profess belief make decisions that perpetuate systemic violence.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The Bible is very clear, that true believers are eternally secure and they can never loose their salvation so we can confidentially conclude that all those who are not true believers will never and have never been saved.

The Bible says that people either love God or hate Him, there is no in between or third option. We are all born enemies of God and we all hate Him because of our fallen state of birth and the inheritance of sinful soul. God is the One who saves us, none of us would ever choose to serve God if it was left up to us.

The Bible is crystal clear, God preordained everyone who would be saved before He created the world. He wrote their names in the book of life and He called His chosen the "elect", so we are the only ones who will be saved. The rest are called "the reprobate", they will never be saved and it's impossible for them to become true believers.

The Bible is very clear, it doesn't leave any room for error. I know most people don't like the way God ordained and commanded mankind to obey His rules. Many women don't like the fact that they are to be subservient to their husband and many other rules like homosexuality being a sin that's carries the penalty eternal torment in hell fire and many many other rules and commandments which unbelievers hate.

All true believers love Gods laws and commandments, we love everything He does and every single one of His attributes. I didn't always love Him, I only began loving Him when He converted me. The more I lean about Him, the more I love Him and hate sin so I love living to serve the Lord. He is going to punish all of my enemies with the worst imaginable torture for ever and he is going to bless the true believers with eternal paradise.
You keep saying, “The Bible is very clear, the Bible is very clear.” What you have failed to understand is that the Bible cannot, by its very nature, be “very clear,” since it was created in such a way as to be multivalent. If you think the Bible is “very clear,” what you’re seeing is a very narrow perspective. Most of what I read of your posts presents a very narrow interpretation that leaves no room for forgiveness, acceptance, hospitality, loving kindness, forbearance, mercy, Justice, or love. What I’m reading here is a nasty sort of entitlement that drips easily off the tongue of one who is in a position of such entitlement.

This view may serve to bring you a great deal of comfort. But remember that Jesus came, not only to comfort the afflicted, but to afflict the comfortable.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
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Creating (or linking to) content intended to convert/recruit others to your religion, spirituality, sect/denomination, or lack thereof is not permitted. Similarly, attempting to convert others away from their religion, spiritual convictions, or sect/denomination will also be considered a form of preaching. Stating opinions as a definitive matter of fact (i.e., without "I believe/feel/think" language, and/or without references) may be moderated as preaching.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Jesus didn't employ His super powers to lessen the pain of the torture and murder that He endured. He had to suffer to make the atonement valid.

There was no other way to pay for the sins of His elect, Gods character and His attributes require perfect justice be served, so there was no other way to pay for the sins of so many than to suffer and die on the cross. Every sin requires blood to be shed to attain forgiveness, God doesn't just wink at sin. He is very strict and His holiness requires blood and suffering for sin.

We need to bare in mind that Jesus was super pure and He felt physical and emotional pain much more than rough defiled sinners do. He also had to endure the separation from the Father and Holy Spirit for 3 days and bare the horrible burden of becoming everyone's sin summed up in Him so you can't imagine how horrible and evil and wicked He would have felt for those 3 days. It's like baring all the evil in hell for 3 days, that's a lot harder for a pure God to cope with than a totally depraved sinner and reprobate.
Fairy tale. Substitutionary Atonement is neither the only, nor, IMO, the best system of salvation presented in the Bible.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
You have never created a speck of dust and you have never achieved a single thing apart from wicked works, so that's the only thing that you can lay claim to.
What a mean-spirited, wicked and unjustifiable thing to say. You have no right — especially as one who professes to follow Christ — to tell anyone such things, especially in public.

So I must judge everyone by their fruits, I'm not to have any fellowship with the workers of unrighteousness
Yet... you seem to be fellowshipping freely with us here... I suggest thou judge thyself.
I love my father but I did fear him when I was a child, especially if I done something bad
I never, ever feared my father. Nor do I fear God. Never had any reason to fear one who has loved me without condition or reservation.
He would beat me up to teach me a lesson and I became a better person thanks to his beatings.
Get. Help.

I love my father for chastising me and I love God for chastising me, you just don't know what true love is, that's your problem
See above.

How would that make you feel, to see me in Heaven?
I shall rejoice when I see you there, for I fully expect to see you.

Not even the Bible supports that claim.
Correct.

the fact is only those who God saves love Him. Those whom He leaves in their sin, don't love Him because there is no love in them. they are totally depraved, fallen wicked sinners
This is nearly the most vile load of crap I’ve ever heard put forth in the name of Jesus.

The Bible says you will either give your life to Christ now or suffer eternal torment in hell, you either deal with the truth now or suffer the consequences
No. That’s not what the Bible says. The Bible says that the father waits until the prodigal child returns and welcomes him with open arms. The Bible says that the shepherd leaves the flock to search out the one who is lost, and will bring that one home.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I'm sorry to see you are offended by the truth, you can run from the truth in this life but you will have to live with the truth for all eternity. The Bible says you will either give your life to Christ now or suffer eternal torment in hell, you either deal with the truth now or suffer the consequences.

I'm glad to suffer persecution for Christ, He deserves nothing less than my whole life, 100% love and obedience.
<with slack jaw and glazed, vacant stare>
Join Us......

Be one of Us.......
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
All martyrs and saints day which goes back to the 4th century may have started as a holiday in late May or early June but Pope Gregory IV transferred it in the 800's to November 1st the time of the Samhain festival which was continued to be celebrated by the Irish. They were still celebrating the festival of Samhain with its pre-Christian like rituals. The celebration on Samhain was not the same as the Original All Saints celebration and the carryover to the Halloween celebration shows the distinction. All souls day is a different celebration starting in 993 at the monastery in Cluny. The gods and goddesses names may have been replaced early on but the rituals and sacred places persisted. The church actively converted these persisting rituals and sacred places in to Christian ones. If you want to celebrate the original All Saints day do it in late May or early June, If you want to celebrate the converted Samhain celebration and it meaning then celebrated it on Halloween.
Holidays rise and change as cultures change, as different ways of understanding emerge, and as the need for meaning evolves with the human condition. As with every other celebration, Halloween carries layers of meaning and is efficacious as a celebration for many different reasons. None of them are inherently evil. We must all deal with our mortality, the inevitability of death, and our cultural fears in ways that serve us. Hallowe’en is one of my favorite holidays. It grieves me that some are so rigid in their faith walks and in their fear of the supernatural that they feel they can’t embrace it in a way that might be meaningful for them.
 
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