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Hands up who believes in the Trinity!

ThisShouldMakeSense

Active Member
I wanted this to be a poll, but wasn't clever enough to figure out how to set one up. anyhow, who believes in the Trinity? I'll start it off by saying 'I don't!'. I think it's the biggest load of rubbish that anyone can get by twisting scrpitures. i think it fills the bible with contradictions and confussion. but that's just me.
Could you also explain why you believe or or don't believe. I'd love if you could list some scriptures to back your views. and i should say, please quote scriptures in context and in relation to other scriptures. (But i'm not saying you need to quote whole chapters...) Thank y'all!

(P.S. Before anyone says 'Why don't you list any scriptures to back your beliefs?', I'd like to cite the whole of the Bible as that is enough for anyone to realise that the trinity is made up nonsense!) :jiggy:
 

Dayv

Member
all humans are equal, and so any man calling himself god is bunk to me. I find the trinity somewhat funny and somewhat wonder if it was taken from the Celts, as they thought the number 3 to be a big thing. They're main goddess was also 3 faceted- Morgan, Badb, and Macha were the three faces.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
*raises hand vehemnetly* Me!

I am not at home at the moment, so I will get back to you on the scripture(but it is there ;) ).
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
I do; like you I couldn't make head nor tail of the idea, and it just seemed such a complicated idea to take 'on board' - until Scott posted the following:-


r.gif
OME, MAY 21, 2005 (Zenit) - In a commentary on this Sunday's Gospel passage, Capuchin Father Raniero Cantalamessa, the preacher of the Pontifical Household, comments that the Trinity is a model for the whole human community because it shows how love creates unity out of diversity.

John (3:16-18)

At that time, Jesus said to Nicodemus: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

The Source of Love

The second reading of today's liturgy, taken from the second letter of St. Paul to the Corinthians, is the one that most directly evokes the mystery of the Most Holy Trinity: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you." But, why do Christians believe in the Trinity? Isn't it difficult enough to believe that God exists, that we must also have added to it the enigma that he is "one and triune?" There are some today who would not be unhappy to leave the Trinity to one side, to be able to dialogue better with Jews and Muslims, who profess faith in a God who is rigidly one.

Christians believe that God is triune because they believe that God is love! It is the revelation of God as love, made by Jesus, which has obliges us to admit the Trinity. It is not a human invention. There is no love for the void, no love that is not directed to someone. So we must ask: who does God love to be defined as love? A first answer might be: He loves mankind. But we have existed for some millions of years, no more. And before then, who did God love? He could not in fact have begun to be love at a certain point in time, because God cannot change.

Second answer: Before then he loved the cosmos, the universe. But the universe has existed for some thousands of millions of years. Before then, who did God love to be able to define himself as love? We cannot say that he loved himself because to love oneself is not love, but egoism or, as psychologists say, narcissism.

Here is the answer of Christian revelation. God is love in himself, before time, because he has always had in himself a Son, the word, whom he loves with an infinite love, that is, in the Holy Spirit. In all love there are always three realities or subjects: one who loves, one who is loved, and the love that unites them.

The God of Christian revelation is one and triune because he is communion of love. Theology has made use of the term "nature" or "substance" to indicate unity in God, and of the term "person" to indicate the distinction. Because of this we say that our God is one God in three persons. The Christian doctrine of the Trinity is not a regression, a compromise between monotheism and polytheism. It is a step further that only God himself could make the human mind take.

Let us now turn to some practical considerations. The Trinity is the model of every human community, from the most simple and elemental, which is the family, to the universal Church. It shows how love creates unity out of diversity: unity of intentions, of thought, of will; diversity of subjects, of characteristics and, in the human realm, of sex. And we see, specifically, what a family can learn from the Trinitarian model.

If we read the New Testament with care, we observe a sort of rule. Each one of the three divine persons does not speak about himself, but about the other; does not attract attention to himself, but to the other. Every time the Father speaks in the Gospel he does so always to reveal something of the Son. Jesus, in turn, speaks only of the Father. When the Holy Spirit reaches a believer's heart, he does not teach him to say his name, which in Hebrew is "Ruah," but teaches him to say "Abba," which is the Father's name.

Let's try to think what this style would bring about if it were transferred to family life. The father, who is not so concerned about asserting his authority as that of the mother; the mother, who before teaching the child to say "Mommy," teaches him to say "Daddy." If this style was imitated in our families and communities, they would truly become a reflection of the Trinity on earth, places where love is the rule that governs everything.

[Italian original published by "Famiglia Cristiana"]

[Translation by ZENIT]

www.catholic.org

I hope that helps you, it did me.:)
 

ThisShouldMakeSense

Active Member
michel said:
I do; like you I couldn't make head nor tail of the idea, and it just seemed such a complicated idea to take 'on board' - until Scott posted the following:-


r.gif
OME, MAY 21, 2005 (Zenit) - In a commentary on this Sunday's Gospel passage, Capuchin Father Raniero Cantalamessa, the preacher of the Pontifical Household, comments that the Trinity is a model for the whole human community because it shows how love creates unity out of diversity.

John (3:16-18)

At that time, Jesus said to Nicodemus: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

The Source of Love

The second reading of today's liturgy, taken from the second letter of St. Paul to the Corinthians, is the one that most directly evokes the mystery of the Most Holy Trinity: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you." But, why do Christians believe in the Trinity? Isn't it difficult enough to believe that God exists, that we must also have added to it the enigma that he is "one and triune?" There are some today who would not be unhappy to leave the Trinity to one side, to be able to dialogue better with Jews and Muslims, who profess faith in a God who is rigidly one.

Christians believe that God is triune because they believe that God is love! It is the revelation of God as love, made by Jesus, which has obliges us to admit the Trinity. It is not a human invention. There is no love for the void, no love that is not directed to someone. So we must ask: who does God love to be defined as love? A first answer might be: He loves mankind. But we have existed for some millions of years, no more. And before then, who did God love? He could not in fact have begun to be love at a certain point in time, because God cannot change.

Second answer: Before then he loved the cosmos, the universe. But the universe has existed for some thousands of millions of years. Before then, who did God love to be able to define himself as love? We cannot say that he loved himself because to love oneself is not love, but egoism or, as psychologists say, narcissism.

Here is the answer of Christian revelation. God is love in himself, before time, because he has always had in himself a Son, the word, whom he loves with an infinite love, that is, in the Holy Spirit. In all love there are always three realities or subjects: one who loves, one who is loved, and the love that unites them.

The God of Christian revelation is one and triune because he is communion of love. Theology has made use of the term "nature" or "substance" to indicate unity in God, and of the term "person" to indicate the distinction. Because of this we say that our God is one God in three persons. The Christian doctrine of the Trinity is not a regression, a compromise between monotheism and polytheism. It is a step further that only God himself could make the human mind take.

Let us now turn to some practical considerations. The Trinity is the model of every human community, from the most simple and elemental, which is the family, to the universal Church. It shows how love creates unity out of diversity: unity of intentions, of thought, of will; diversity of subjects, of characteristics and, in the human realm, of sex. And we see, specifically, what a family can learn from the Trinitarian model.

If we read the New Testament with care, we observe a sort of rule. Each one of the three divine persons does not speak about himself, but about the other; does not attract attention to himself, but to the other. Every time the Father speaks in the Gospel he does so always to reveal something of the Son. Jesus, in turn, speaks only of the Father. When the Holy Spirit reaches a believer's heart, he does not teach him to say his name, which in Hebrew is "Ruah," but teaches him to say "Abba," which is the Father's name.

Let's try to think what this style would bring about if it were transferred to family life. The father, who is not so concerned about asserting his authority as that of the mother; the mother, who before teaching the child to say "Mommy," teaches him to say "Daddy." If this style was imitated in our families and communities, they would truly become a reflection of the Trinity on earth, places where love is the rule that governs everything.

[Italian original published by "Famiglia Cristiana"]

[Translation by ZENIT]

www.catholic.org

I hope that helps you, it did me.:)


I read that before. Thing is tho, in a family, you have dad, mum, and child. one family, yes, but still individuals who are all different. and i still would have loads of questions based on that post, and lots of other scriptures that could be used.
 

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
:jam: I believe that the trinity is an attempt to help people know God. However, I do not agree with everyones' interpretaion of the Trinity.


Michel, thank you I love this: one who loves, one who is loved, and the love that unites them.

I can't give you any frubals right now.
 

jimbob

The Celt
okay, first of all, i do believe (as you all can tell by my avatars). secondly, here's the explaination.

A shamrock or clover (whatever you call it) is one leaf correct? Yet that one leaf is made up of three individual leaves, but the shamrock is still only one. Thus it is with the trinity, three beings (three leaves) in one ( one main leaf). Am i making sense? If i'm not tell me, and i'll have another go.
 

ThisShouldMakeSense

Active Member
jimbob said:
okay, first of all, i do believe (as you all can tell by my avatars). secondly, here's the explaination.

A shamrock or clover (whatever you call it) is one leaf correct? Yet that one leaf is made up of three individual leaves, but the shamrock is still only one. Thus it is with the trinity, three beings (three leaves) in one ( one main leaf). Am i making sense? If i'm not tell me, and i'll have another go.

i know what you're trying to say, but that is a clover! Not God. The teachings of the trinity state that there are three individual god's and then in the same sentence it says, 'yet not three gods, but one.' Eh, come again!? And that they are all equal.
there is a scripture that says that God is the head of the christ. 1 Corinthians 11:3 'I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man.(Ok, i get that.) The husband is the head of his wife. (ok, i get that too.) God is the head of Christ. (Oh, no he's not!)' says the trinitarian...
I ask you, how could they, bearing in mind what this scripture is also saying about the headship arrangement between a man and a woman, possibly be equal?? :banghead3
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
EnhancedSpirit said:
:jam: I believe that the trinity is an attempt to help people know God. However, I do not agree with everyones' interpretaion of the Trinity.


Michel, thank you I love this: one who loves, one who is loved, and the love that unites them.

I can't give you any frubals right now.
The fruballs should be directed to Scott; I just quoted his post!:)
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
ThisShouldMakeSense said:
I read that before. Thing is tho, in a family, you have dad, mum, and child. one family, yes, but still individuals who are all different. and i still would have loads of questions based on that post, and lots of other scriptures that could be used.
How about if you look at it as there is one person, and there a three hats on the stand in the entrance hall, one is hat 'dad', one is 'mum' and one is 'child'.

You may find that a ridiculous scenario, but I have three hats - I have a husband hat for my wife, I have a dad hat for my sons, and I have a 'mr try to fix it ends up in a mess cos I am not very good at DIY hat'.

Does that help at all?:)
 

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
Here we go again.:D

Same song, second verse, Christian accent a little bit worse- Jesus is God, God is God, Holy Spirit is God.:confused:

Same song, second verse, . . . accent a little bit worse- Jesus is the Son of God, and connected to him by the Holy Spirit.

Same song second verse, atheist accent a little bit worse- you are all nuts, there is no God, no Jesus and the Holy Spirit is a little dude named Jiminy Cricket.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
ThisShouldMakeSense said:
i know what you're trying to say, but that is a clover! Not God. The teachings of the trinity state that there are three individual god's and then in the same sentence it says, 'yet not three gods, but one.' Eh, come again!? And that they are all equal.
there is a scripture that says that God is the head of the christ. 1 Corinthians 11:3 'I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man.(Ok, i get that.) The husband is the head of his wife. (ok, i get that too.) God is the head of Christ. (Oh, no he's not!)' says the trinitarian...
I ask you, how could they, bearing in mind what this scripture is also saying about the headship arrangement between a man and a woman, possibly be equal?? :banghead3
I think the problem is in the usage of language.
I think if we were starting fresh today , we would say they were the three aspects of God.The problem is we are faced with a plethora of scripture and other religious literature that Has rather complicated the issue and is seen as essential to many Christians.

Terry
____________________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.
 

Ronald

Well-Known Member
Christian ADDITION! Search the bible, there is not one verse wherein the word trinity can be found.

Joh 4:24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

He doesn't have a Spirit, He is Spirit.

Yeshua is his only begotten son. Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.
Mt 15:7 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said:
8 ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;
9 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’"
Answer for yourselves, is the word "trinity" God breathed or man made?

 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
Both Michel And Scott, Thank You! The 1st time the trinity appeared together was when Jesus was Baptized. In Matthew, 3/16-17.... 16. After Jesus was baptized, he came up from the water and behold, the heavens were opened (for him), and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove (and) coming upon him. 17. And a voice came from the heavens, saying "This is my beloved Son, with whom I an well pleased."
 

jimbob

The Celt
ThisShouldMakeSense said:
i know what you're trying to say, but that is a clover! Not God. The teachings of the trinity state that there are three individual god's and then in the same sentence it says, 'yet not three gods, but one.' Eh, come again!? And that they are all equal.
there is a scripture that says that God is the head of the christ. 1 Corinthians 11:3 'I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man.(Ok, i get that.) The husband is the head of his wife. (ok, i get that too.) God is the head of Christ. (Oh, no he's not!)' says the trinitarian...
I ask you, how could they, bearing in mind what this scripture is also saying about the headship arrangement between a man and a woman, possibly be equal?? :banghead3
ya a clover. There are "three individual gods" (three indivudual leaves) "yet not three but one" (not three leaves, but one)

ARgh, so hard to explain, St. Patty, help me out here
The shamrock, which looks like clover, has three leaves on each stem. Saint Patrick told the people that the shamrock was like the idea of the Trinity – that in the one God there are three divine beings: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

I cut and pasted that from some site.
 
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