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Halve truths vs. whole lies

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Power Stone, Aug 1, 2020 at 11:13 PM.

  1. Power Stone

    Power Stone Unknown Member

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    Someone once told me that people who believe in God aren't being truthful when they talk about what they really believe out of fear of being called delusional and that has led many to become atheists who justify it with since I can't tell my whole truth then I'd rather tell a whole lie. I dismissed it. Thoughts?
     
    #1 Power Stone, Aug 1, 2020 at 11:13 PM
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020 at 12:28 AM
  2. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    It can be something like a bait and switch, depending on how it is presented.
    When you first hear "God is love", "Islam is a religion of peace", "we have morals" and then, when you're hooked, you learn that your religion is also racist, misogynistic, homophobe and militaristic, you feel betrayed.
     
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  3. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    There are those who do what you've been told but of course not all. I don't know your history but in the US there have been preachers who have been found to do the opposite of what they preached. There was a big scandal about Catholic priests being pedophiles not too long ago. And there are a number of TV evangelists who lived lives that they preached against.

    This is not limited to the US. Such types of people are also in India and it is said of them; There are many hypocritical saints with long matted hair and their bodies besmeared with ashes. Tukaram says: "Let their dead conscience be burnt; it is no sin to thrash them!"

    There are terrorists who profess Islam who in their words and deeds ignore what the Quran says and Hadith affirms. There is a Hadith that speaks to such:

    The time is near in which nothing will remain of Islam but its name, and
    of the Quran but its mere appearance, and the mosques of Muslims will be
    destitute of of knowledge and worship; and the learned will be the worst
    people under the heavens; and contention and strife will issue from them,
    and it will return upon themselves.
    ...
    Ye follower of Muhammad, I swear by the Lord, if ye did but know what I
    know of the future state, verily ye would laugh little and cry much.
    ...
    Men will be liars towards the end of the world; and will relate such
    stories as neither you nor your fathers ever heard. Then avoid them, that
    they may not lead you astray and throw you into contention and strife.


    Sayings of The Prophet | Islamic Values
     
  4. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Why do you consider atheism to be telling a lie?
     
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  5. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    If a person has cultivated higher wisdom then average believers, it might be difficult to speak out about the truth they have realized. Why? Because if this person spoke out the higher truth, none of the others would understand because they had not realized this higher truth for them self. And they would think that it was false truth.
     
  6. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    "If you can’t explain something in simple terms, you don’t understand it." - Richard Feynman
     
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  7. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    A highly spiritual cultivated person can give the wisdom on every level up to his or her own level, so it should not be a problem. But it is the one who has yet to realize higher level of truth that may struggle to understand :)
     
  8. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Sākṣī
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    I think your "someone" is full of baloney. I applaud your dismissal of this nonsense.
     
  9. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Sākṣī
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    In reading the OP, I'm thinking it was the "someone" who considers atheism a lie. He said he dismissed it.
     
  10. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    Beef or pork baloney :confused:
     
  11. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Sākṣī
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    [​IMG]
     
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  12. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Re reading, i think you are correct.

    Apologies to @Power Stone
     
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  13. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    First impression: What a ridiculous chain of reason!
    What would be the benefit of telling a whole lie? For that matter, wouldn't the lying atheist face more opprobrium for his atheism than he would for his religiosity, particularly as part of a religious community?
     
  14. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    And this happens all the time. Technology has a long history of realizing the "clearly impossible."
    And yes, skeptics are generated, eg: climate change deniers, &al. It doesn't seem to shut up the prophets, though.
     
  15. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    LOL! -- but a lie is an intentionally false positive assertion. Atheism asserts nothing.
     
  16. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    Why should spiritual people shut up?
     
  17. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Many people I think go along with the crowd, whatever crowd they are in. They're aren't lying so much as accepting the crowd they are in and not looking for problems. Those of us who stick ourselves out and disagree some of us do it out of discomfort and some out of comfort. Depression is terrible, but it also makes people think about social problems and speak up and disagree. Some people can't fit in, so to stick out doesn't cost them so much. Some have never fit in no matter where they have gone and no matter what they have tried or have stopped trying. On the other hand there are mavericks who have very strong personalities and fit in just fine but don't hide in the crowd. They are generally very popular people and also very intelligent. They are very lucky, usually oversexed. Some of them are also humble and wise. Its completely unfair, and you don't have to tell me its unfair. The crowd follows them.
     
  18. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    There are people who believe in God but they don't want to say it because they're afraid of being called "delusional"? I guess it would depend on the circumstances or whatever group the person is with. A lot of religious people tend to be very open about their beliefs - or they might wear ornamentation or other accouterments which clearly show they are believers.

    In my experience, it's the atheists who tend to play it close to the vest.
     
  19. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    We're scared of the believers -- bad history there. ;)
     
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  20. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Sākṣī
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    Is that an intentionally false positive assertion? ;)

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