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Half of million jobs less reported bad economy

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Riders, Aug 22, 2019.

  1. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    Blame is so distributed that I don't feel like blaming anyone.
    It's just the system we're stuck with.
     
  2. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
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  3. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry Verisimilitudinous

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    At the same time, though, those who "flip burgers" (I'm sorry, restaurant work is never that easy!) are still contributing to our community and deserve a living wage if the employer can afford it and it is a crucial part of their income. It is fairly elitist to suggest a restaurant worker can "do nothing better."

    Of course if we raised taxes for the rich....

    You may not be responsible, but you have a stake in it. The quality of life of those around you tends to impact your own life.

    While I agree that the choices people make ultimately lead to ownership of their problems, I don't think it is practical to ignore the root causes of poverty, since socioeconomic status seems to have a cyclical quality to it.

    How many of those things are necessary to participate in society? Video games and TVs, maybe not so much. But cellphones, cars, computers, and internet are becoming cultural necessities. In fact, not having them impacts greatly on socioeconomic status. Also, relatively, these are cheaper and more readily available (considering how many used cars and refurbished tech is available) than other indicators of cultural wellness like healthcare and education.
     
  4. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Mine is half full but you think its half empty because yours is half empty.
     
  5. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
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    Not really. I was reacting to the fact that you are the RF "bad news" reporter. :p:p:p
    Mine is always completely full....but sometimes half of it is filled with air.:D:D:D
     
    #25 Milton Platt, Aug 22, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  6. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    Even economists are unsure about whether we're in a recession or not.
    But anti-Trumpers are already claiming a "bad economy".
    Yet I can't find help for carpentry or groundskeeping.
    But I do now have an antique machinery worker.
     
  7. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    A life of crime, perhaps?
    There is no point in our engaging in an economic system that only seeks to exploit and abuse us. That is a system based on greed and exploitation rather than on mutually advantageous trade. There is no point in working a job if it will not gain us at least a means of survival. And part time work is no excuse for exploitation.
    So it's OK to exploit and abuse their time and energy for someone else's profit, because you don't like their life choices. Got it.
    "Cost of living" is a very nebulous idea that can and is very easily fudged to support political agendas.
    No, at present the national debt goes up, instead.
    Every president starting with Reagan robbed the social security retirement fund, except Obama. And every one of them did it to make up for the loss of revenue caused by big tax breaks for the rich and powerful who pay for their campaigns, and pay billions in bribe money to them and their political parties.
    That is a lie that you have swallowed. It was intended to keep people from dying in poverty when they got too old to work.
    Again, you pass judgment and condemnation on others, knowing nothing at all about their lives or their circumstances, so you can excuse the system's greed and abuse. You should be ashamed.
    You are responsible for the system that you took advantage of, and supported, and have allowed to take advantage of others.
    Life is not all about you.
    That isn't why it's going broke. The system accounts for changes in age demographics. It's going broke because we allowed our politicians to steal the money, over and over and over again, to pay for big tax breaks for their wealthy patrons and conies.
    Yes, as we can see in your comments, bias and loathing toward our fellow humans is also a big factor. And the politicians press that hot button every time they want another tax break for their friends.
    because we allowed our politicians to steal the money, over and over and over again, to pay for big tax breaks for their wealthy patrons and conies.
    ... And tax the rich less, less, and less. Who then pile up their wealth in offshore accounts to be used to further corrupt the government to their own advantage. And you have supported this behavior all along. Because you think greed is a virtue, rather than a sin. You think greed is really just ambition. And hard work. When it's really NOT.
    because we allowed our politicians to steal the money, over and over and over again, to pay for big tax breaks for their wealthy patrons and conies.
    People cannot function in our current society without many of those things. Try getting a job, and getting to the job in most of America without a car, a phone, a computer, some decent clothes, regular meals, and some form of entertainment to decompress from the stress of working, afterwards.

    Our culture has created one big corporate 'plantation' that demands our labor by threatening our very lives, and the lives of our families. And the government is just 'straw boss' doing the master's bidding. And you have been supporting this enslavement all your life, and blaming the weaker slaves for not working hard enough when they fall by the wayside.
     
  8. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
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    The same old socialist/communist rhetoric. Capitalism is evil. The rich are evil. Those who succeed are evil.

    No one is responsible for their own choices.

    I suggest you learn where Americans work, and what sectors of the economy produce the most jobs.

    You rant about greedy corporations creating plantations where their employees are slaves.

    Are all American workers slaves as you describe them ?

    Are all employers greedy slave owners ?

    Of course not. I don´t even know what corporations you are talking about.

    Your view of these economic issues are simply not based in reality. They are based in the narrative of a myth. A popular myth, but still a myth.

    What you really resent is that some accumulate more money than others. You hate the fact that some through wise investments become rich.

    You probably don´t know, or don´t care that the US had the highest corporate tax rates of any first world nation, until Trump cut the corporate tax rate. The higher rate was better, right ? Soak those companies, right ? Trump is evil for cutting their taxes, right ?

    Wrong ! The higher tax rates drove businesses, and their jobs to other nations.

    Businesses and wealthy people create jobs, draconian taxes on them don´t hurt them, they hurt the employee seeking a job.

    I had an employee who studied the stock market, and started with a modest amount of money, and began investing in his time off. Some years later he came to me and submitted his resignation, he had become a millionaire and did not need his job anymore.

    I suspect this would have enraged you. A police sergeant had become a millionaire by simply trading stocks, and retired in his early forties to trade full time, to make more money. How hateful of him.

    I of course, applauded him. How hateful of me.

    Certainly our economic system, and provisions for the truly needy are not perfect.

    Nevertheless, our system is vastly superior to any concept of mass wealth distribution.

    I have an uncle who began his working life as a drywall installer. He started his own drywall company with one employee and himself, in the LA area. He built his business to having over 100 employees. He bought a large amount of land in the Oregon mountains and built a beautiful home on the land. He spent one week of the month supervising his business in LA, and three weeks in Oregon farming and raising cattle. He ultimately sold the business and retired.

    Like all young people of my generation, I was a democrat sympathizer in college. I asked him why some, like him had so much, and others had much, much less.

    His answer was simple, direct, and true. He said that if you divided all the money in circulation equally among all the population, in 5 years those who had most of the money before the division, would have it again.

    A true fact of life. Our system allows the freedom of people who can manage money and multiply it, to do so. Many, including me do not have this ability. Those who do should not be penalized because I cannot do what they have done.

    There should be absolutely total equality in opportunity, not forced income redistribution.
     
  9. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Seeing ourselves mainly as just individuals puts our own interests above what's good for others and what's good for society as a whole. We know that even the Neanderthal knew that as they did take care of each other based on the fossil evidence, so shouldn't we at least be as civilized as they?
     
  10. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
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    My response is essentially the same as my response to gun control hysteria.

    The social causes of poverty should be addressed. Just as the social causes of gun violence should be addressed.

    In essence, I believe that just throwing money at poverty has totally failed. After trillions of dollars spent by the ¨war on poverty" poverty is just as rampant as before the "war" began.

    I also believe that the welfare idea has deadened the self worth and pride of the poor populations.

    When people accept that a minimal check, and living in poverty as their only option, something is seriously wrong with that culture, and the governments charged with eliminating poverty are sick as well.

    The poor become reliable partners of a party that promises more stuff, yet has wasted those vast amounts of money. They are enslaved by welfare checks, and the cycle of dependence they create.

    Those vast amounts of money could have been spent on mandatory education in a trade or skill of choice. Failure should not be an option. If a person screws around and fails to graduate all subsistence should be terminated.

    It could have been spent on decent housing with inspections to see that the property is being preserved.

    Day care could have been provided for those in the education programs.

    regular health inspections could have been done, and the money could have been spent to mitigate the health problems.

    There could have been aggressive promotion for jobs for the graduates, maybe including tax breaks for the employers who hire them.

    I have seen the south side of Chicago, it is an unbelieveably sad place, controlled by gangs and drug dealers. Despair hangs in the air. All of those billions of dollars spent, and these people live in what looks like a war zone.

    In our everyday life we constantly have to do things we don´t want to do, those living in poverty may have to do the same thing to eliminate the cycle. Very tough love is required.

    Of course what I have written is just a fantasy. It will never be done. A healthy person on welfare cannot even be compelled to pick up trash a few hours a day. Some how, some right is violated. They take the money, and do nothing for it. A real object lesson for the accountability of the individual.

    The cycle continues from generation to generation. And the money disappears, and the people live as they always have.
     
  11. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
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    The Neaderthals were intelligent people, not semi human as some portray.

    Of course we have a responsibility to provide assistance for those who require it. That is a legitimate function of government. The devil is in the details.

    Who should be given aid ? What kind of aid should be given ? How far does the individuals accountability effect the aid given ? How long should this aid go on ? Is the aid based upon preparing the individual to support themselves, or is it just a handout ?

    Many, many questions should be answered before the peoples tax money is expended.
     
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