"Ground Zero" Mosque?

[dallas1125]

This issue has died down, maybe for a reason but im bringing it back up.

The incorrectly nicknamed "Ground Zero Mosque" did not recieve a lot of media attention until fox news (IMO) caused the issue to become explosive with the nickname.

O wait, its not even a mosque, its a community center with a mosque inside.

Can anyone produce any logical and legal reason to support NOT building the community center?

 

[TJ73]

May be logical but not legal. The logic would be don't feed the flames. As muslims we are not here to antagonize. We are to show people with the best of manners. And I am not saying the builders are expressing bad manners ( not by intent). Legally, of course there is no legal way of saying no. and those trying to find one a really setting us all up as a nation.
My bottom line, it is really bad that we are taking away the true nature of 9/11 and other acts of the like. This was POLITICAL not religious per se. The ones that commit these acts may be believers ( only Allah,swt, knows for sure) and may need to support their acts by twisting scripture, but they did it as an act of war. The don't have the sophisticated military and machines and influence that we use against them so they resort to more primitive brutish forms of engagement. They don't hate "us" and our lifestlye, just hate our governments taking what belongs to others,occupying someone else's land and trying to take other peoples resources.

 

[Rakhel]

I had hoped that more came from the rumored "Saudi King buying St. Vincent's hospital." Not because it would have(supposedly) moved the mosque away from Park51 but because it would have opened up a now bankrupt hospital for a much needed area.

 

[TJ73]

That would be a good idea.

 

[dallas1125]

May be logical but not legal.

Actualy, it is quite legal. It is completey within their right to build the center.

The logic would be don't feed the flames. As muslims we are not here to antagonize. We are to show people with the best of manners. And I am not saying the builders are expressing bad manners ( not by intent). Legally, of course there is no legal way of saying no. and those trying to find one a really setting us all up as a nation.
My bottom line, it is really bad that we are taking away the true nature of 9/11 and other acts of the like. This was POLITICAL not religious per se. The ones that commit these acts may be believers ( only Allah,swt, knows for sure) and may need to support their acts by twisting scripture, but they did it as an act of war. The don't have the sophisticated military and machines and influence that we use against them so they resort to more primitive brutish forms of engagement. They don't hate "us" and our lifestlye, just hate our governments taking what belongs to others,occupying someone else's land and trying to take other peoples resources.

See, I dont think it takes away at all from the nature of what happened on 9/11. Plus the fact that tragic day was caused extremists. Those building the center are not extremists, they are peaceful.

 

[Rakhel]

My issue is not with Park51 itself, but with the man behind it.

 

[TJ73]

Actualy, it is quite legal. It is completey within their right to build the center.


See, I dont think it takes away at all from the nature of what happened on 9/11. Plus the fact that tragic day was caused extremists. Those building the center are not extremists, they are peaceful.

I wasn't clear, sorry. I actually AGREE with you. I am taking the position that there could arguably be a "logical" reason they could not build but here is absolutely NO LEGAl reason they can not build. And I further say if those that are trying to find a LEAGAl position to stop it are putting the fundamentals of the entire nation at risk.

Now as far as taking from the nature of the incident; I don't find the people that committed 9/11 to necessarily be extremists or anything else. I don't know what they believe, religiously speaking. What I am saying is that what they did was not in support of a religious ideal but rather a political one. This was a war tactic. like you come here and fight us and our politics, now we come there and fight you.
And I am certainly not accussing the center builders of having any mal intent.

 

[dallas1125]

I wasn't clear, sorry. I actually AGREE with you. I am taking the position that there could arguably be a "logical" reason they could not build but here is absolutely NO LEGAl reason they can not build. And I further say if those that are trying to find a LEAGAl position to stop it are putting the fundamentals of the entire nation at risk.

Now as far as taking from the nature of the incident; I don't find the people that committed 9/11 to necessarily be extremists or anything else. I don't know what they believe, religiously speaking. What I am saying is that what they did was not in support of a religious ideal but rather a political one. This was a war tactic. like you come here and fight us and our politics, now we come there and fight you.
And I am certainly not accussing the center builders of having any mal intent.

Well I do agree with you that it is political in nature. It would be logically best for political reasons to move it but it is not logical for the investors behind the project.

 

[TJ73]

True, from a financial stand point it would be illogical. But to me that goes right back to heart of the problem and most of the worlds problems. We put money above humanity. We even have something called business ethics. Ethics are ethics. But we put money so far above humanity we created a special kind of ethics for dealing with money. All is fair in love and war type crapp-ola

 

[TJ73]

10 seconds after I post this I get a pop-up from world business and financial something or other.You see! They are out to get us!!!!

 

[dallas1125]

True, from a financial stand point it would be illogical. But to me that goes right back to heart of the problem and most of the worlds problems. We put money above humanity. We even have something called business ethics. Ethics are ethics. But we put money so far above humanity we created a special kind of ethics for dealing with money. All is fair in love and war type crapp-ola

Ha ha, yes money does have too big of a part in society but we do need it. Although it is not the cause of clashes. It is the cause of economic failure. I.e. The banks that screwed us over.

Right now the worlds problems are caused by ignorance and misunderstandings. Wars are fought over different cultures.

The west doesnt understand the cultural differences of the middle east, and vice versa.

 

[TJ73]

Ha ha, yes money does have too big of a part in society but we do need it. Although it is not the cause of clashes. It is the cause of economic failure. I.e. The banks that screwed us over.

Right now the worlds problems are caused by ignorance and misunderstandings. Wars are fought over different cultures.

The west doesnt understand the cultural differences of the middle east, and vice versa.

I respectfully beg to differ. The controling parties in the west FULLY understand the Middle East and vie versa. The PEOPLE are purposely led into ignorance which fosters misunderstandings. Why? because if we all acknowledged that we oppress other countries and go to war because we want more money/power and control we wouldn't feel so good anymore. We choose to accept the poo-poo they tell us about cultural misunderstandings so we can feel warm and fuzzy about our country taking stuff that just ain't ours.
We have lived amongst each other, as different cultures, for millennium! We travel and enjoy and learn and make fun of each other ...
It's only when we find some stuff of value, like oil, diamonds, gold, land with good access to stuff, that we all of a sudden don't understand each other. What is the big difference, you eat this I eat that, I say potatoe blah blah blah. It only becomes an issue when we can use it to get some stuff! And religious people can often fall into that old trap when the leaders ( on the payroll mind you) tell them " Do this for GOD"
I've never seen God tell Muslims for example, they are listening to music and their skirts are high... go get em!
Money IS the problem. It is power in this world and lusted after with fervor. So much so people that may have had faith would set it down for a chance at their piece of the pie.

 

[dallas1125]

I respectfully beg to differ. The controling parties in the west FULLY understand the Middle East and vie versa. The PEOPLE are purposely led into ignorance which fosters misunderstandings. Why? because if we all acknowledged that we oppress other countries and go to war because we want more money/power and control we wouldn't feel so good anymore. We choose to accept the poo-poo they tell us about cultural misunderstandings so we can feel warm and fuzzy about our country taking stuff that just ain't ours.
We have lived amongst each other, as different cultures, for millennium! We travel and enjoy and learn and make fun of each other ...
It's only when we find some stuff of value, like oil, diamonds, gold, land with good access to stuff, that we all of a sudden don't understand each other. What is the big difference, you eat this I eat that, I say potatoe blah blah blah. It only becomes an issue when we can use it to get some stuff! And religious people can often fall into that old trap when the leaders ( on the payroll mind you) tell them " Do this for GOD"
I've never seen God tell Muslims for example, they are listening to music and their skirts are high... go get em!
Money IS the problem. It is power in this world and lusted after with fervor. So much so people that may have had faith would set it down for a chance at their piece of the pie.

It actually appears that we agree. I meant the masses when I said that. Just different ways of saying it I guess.

 

[TJ73]

Gotcha! :rainbow1:

 

[gnomon]

This issue has died down, maybe for a reason but im bringing it back up.

The incorrectly nicknamed "Ground Zero Mosque" did not recieve a lot of media attention until fox news (IMO) caused the issue to become explosive with the nickname.

O wait, its not even a mosque, its a community center with a mosque inside.

Can anyone produce any logical and legal reason to support NOT building the community center?

There are no current legal arguments against Park 51. It has passed all legal tests against it.

There are no logical arguments against it. Some people might be offended but that's not a logical argument. However, the mass of people against it, protesting it, etc. shame the United States.