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Alien826

No religious beliefs
Here's a quote from Donald Soper* (look him up, he was a fascinating person).

"The most important thing about prophesy is to have plenty of it".

I guess the meaning is plain, but I'll set it out in case anyone doesn't get it. If you have lots of prophesy some of it will probably be close enough to actual events to be considered true.

I wonder if it is possible to list prophesy that definitely didn't come true. I suspect that believers would say they were not true prophesies. If that's true, I'd ask how does one distinguish a true prophesy from a fake one (in advance, not after the event did or didn't happen).

(* He was given a life peerage for his work among the poor in the East End of London, and became Lord Soper. He would joke that there were many Church of England Ministers (Bishops) in the House of Lords, but only one Methodist.)
 

Apostle John

“Go ahead, look up Revelation 6”
Here's a quote from Donald Soper* (look him up, he was a fascinating person).

"The most important thing about prophesy is to have plenty of it".

I guess the meaning is plain, but I'll set it out in case anyone doesn't get it. If you have lots of prophesy some of it will probably be close enough to actual events to be considered true.

I wonder if it is possible to list prophesy that definitely didn't come true. I suspect that believers would say they were not true prophesies. If that's true, I'd ask how does one distinguish a true prophesy from a fake one (in advance, not after the event did or didn't happen).

(* He was given a life peerage for his work among the poor in the East End of London, and became Lord Soper. He would joke that there were many Church of England Ministers (Bishops) in the House of Lords, but only one Methodist.)
I couldn’t find that quote. He didn’t sound like a man into interfaith. I am certainly not but respect other people with what they want to believe.
 

Jedster

Well-Known Member
Here's a quote from Donald Soper* (look him up, he was a fascinating person).

"The most important thing about prophesy is to have plenty of it".

I guess the meaning is plain, but I'll set it out in case anyone doesn't get it. If you have lots of prophesy some of it will probably be close enough to actual events to be considered true.

I wonder if it is possible to list prophesy that definitely didn't come true. I suspect that believers would say they were not true prophesies. If that's true, I'd ask how does one distinguish a true prophesy from a fake one (in advance, not after the event did or didn't happen).

(* He was given a life peerage for his work among the poor in the East End of London, and became Lord Soper. He would joke that there were many Church of England Ministers (Bishops) in the House of Lords, but only one Methodist.)

I used to listen to him in the 1980s at Speakers corner in London.
Here is a clip of him speaking
Lord Soper discussing pacifism at Speakers' Corner, 1984 | The British Library (bl.uk)
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
What I think is great, is how combining prophecy paints a bigger picture.

I see that each of the prophesies from the many faith sources, taken only by themselves can be like the Blind men and the Elephant metaphor.

So if we grab all God given prophesies, inclusive of some indigenous prophecies and even some more reliable saint given or hadith given prophesy about an age of peace, we get a picture of our age.

We are fast approaching events that will bring about a Lesser Peace.

It would be great to discuss prophesies and how they point to this age in particular.

Regards Tony
Yes, and in my view, the events of Noah, is happening in our time, as Jesus said.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Here's a quote from Donald Soper* (look him up, he was a fascinating person).

"The most important thing about prophesy is to have plenty of it".

I guess the meaning is plain, but I'll set it out in case anyone doesn't get it. If you have lots of prophesy some of it will probably be close enough to actual events to be considered true.

I wonder if it is possible to list prophesy that definitely didn't come true. I suspect that believers would say they were not true prophesies. If that's true, I'd ask how does one distinguish a true prophesy from a fake one (in advance, not after the event did or didn't happen).

(* He was given a life peerage for his work among the poor in the East End of London, and became Lord Soper. He would joke that there were many Church of England Ministers (Bishops) in the House of Lords, but only one Methodist.)

Prophecy given by Messengers will come to pass, it is true prophecy.

So in the 1800's Baha'u'llah offered the vision of the future, what must come to pass for peace, Abdul'baha explained it while in America in 1912.

"The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation."

2 attempts at that so far, both the League of Nations and the United Nations never were given the required mandate, and were not elected on the required foundations. So this will have further fulfillment.

This is what will unfold.

"True civilization will unfurl its banner in the midmost heart of the world whenever a certain number of its distinguished and high-minded sovereigns—the shining exemplars of devotion and determination—shall, for the good and happiness of all mankind, arise, with firm resolve and clear vision, to establish the Cause of Universal Peace. They must make the Cause of Peace the object of general consultation, and seek by every means in their power to establish a Union of the nations of the world. They must conclude a binding treaty and establish a covenant, the provisions of which shall be sound, inviolable and definite. They must proclaim it to all the world and obtain for it the sanction of all the human race. This supreme and noble undertaking—the real source of the peace and well-being of all the world—should be regarded as sacred by all that dwell on earth. All the forces of humanity must be mobilized to ensure the stability and permanence of this Most Great Covenant. In this all-embracing Pact the limits and frontiers of each and every nation should be clearly fixed, the principles underlying the relations of governments towards one another definitely laid down, and all international agreements and obligations ascertained. In like manner, the size of the armaments of every government should be strictly limited, for if the preparations for war and the military forces of any nation should be allowed to increase, they will arouse the suspicion of others. The fundamental principle underlying this solemn Pact should be so fixed that if any government later violate any one of its provisions, all the governments on earth should arise to reduce it to utter submission, nay the human race as a whole should resolve, with every power at its disposal, to destroy that government. Should this greatest of all remedies be applied to the sick body of the world, it will assuredly recover from its ills and will remain eternally safe and secure."

Regards Tony
 

Alien826

No religious beliefs

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Are you planning on listing a few of these prophecies?

I have just come across this information, it contains One Baha'i's effort in examining Prophecy.

Jesus Speaks - Table of Contents

It includes maps to all other religions. It attempts to show how all religions are actually included in Biblical Prophecy.

I found it while looking at the Armageddon prophecy, which Abdul'baha said started with the 1st World War. I note this person uses pilgrims notes, which are not official Baha'i Writings, but do contain a lot of talks about more detail on specific subjects.

Jesus Speaks - Chapter 16

Regards Tony
 

Apostle John

“Go ahead, look up Revelation 6”
I heard him say that. if you can't find it I guess he didn't write it down.
Lord Soper would have only believed the prophecy in the Bible. End times prophecies are extremely different between Christianity and the likes of Islam. They lead to very different ends. Only the Christian view is credible because of previous evidence of fulfilled prophecies.
 

Jedster

Well-Known Member
Memory lane! Thank you!

I used to listen to him at Tower Hill in my lunch break (I worked nearby). Fascinating that you were doing the same thing at a similar time. As we were at different places, I doubt we ever met, but imagine if we did. :eek:

Maybe we did.
I also heard him at Tower Hill and met there the people who painted the bridge blue.
Did you paint the bridge blue? :D




tower-bridge-london-hdr.jpg
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I have just come across this information, it contains One Baha'i's effort in examining Prophecy.

Jesus Speaks - Table of Contents

It includes maps to all other religions. It attempts to show how all religions are actually included in Biblical Prophecy.

I found it while looking at the Armageddon prophecy, which Abdul'baha said started with the 1st World War. I note this person uses pilgrims notes, which are not official Baha'i Writings, but do contain a lot of talks about more detail on specific subjects.

Jesus Speaks - Chapter 16

Regards Tony

Lord Soper would have only believed the prophecy in the Bible. End times prophecies are extremely different between Christianity and the likes of Islam. They lead to very different ends. Only the Christian view is credible because of previous evidence of fulfilled prophecies.

It can be seen that Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah fulfilled many prophecies that are recorded in the Bible.

Thus, they also have evidence of fulfilled prophecies.

Regards Tony
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
The truthful human review.

All living bodies were not created. As only the God types were created. In space conditions direct space as law.

And living came from the eternal spirit. Who entered the caused creation so died. Having gained a karmic return.

Being space as emptiness. As it was filled back in as a flat plane by a heavens spirit. Gases. So God caused life to emerge out of the eternal by its created from its earth body ...the heavens cause.

Why life died as it never belonged. The disconnection was space between eternal and mass.

The O body created returned the eternals karma.

Suns law only gave the gas body light factually. The end of a reaction.

God terms rock dusts however end a humans life as it's owned beginnings...minerals in water.

So we have heavenly spirit human voice images memories. Recorded living then lived life...past tense. Only heard by hurt brain minds removed dead DNA. As lived human to hear voices is past tense.

As in living we own health use health to live and have voice. Yet life lived..past tense owns voiced life....leaves a record. As dead human.

To body bio living to died it's decomposed now mineral Skeletal dusts.

Human bio type mainly water.

Water remains is mass first isn't human or biology. Or living.

Versus...Satanism about God.
Theory
Humans came out of burning UFO star mass metals as an evil atmospheric image first.

Is the human spiritual living status to thesis versus scientific theism.

The con. Instead of new science claiming it O cell microbe...which they aren't. They say a god mass dust types first as chemical converting...means burning into a manifested living cooled cell.

Same theme from a burning chemical position reaction.

That science type says why it's correct above all others. Same just changed theme. Only said by a sex created human mind body.

Difference in mind to sacrifycing baby bio life returned to not the origin parents. Our life was burnt out of owning parents origin life genesis and conscious mind. We talk consciously as sacrificed mind history.

Spiritual humans argument is personal karma.

To support it being karmic...all origin life had been combusted. Instant snap frozen human built artefacts the proof.

Would supersede any beginning thesis by just a human and just a scientist as a human.

As water mass is ever present only with living biology.

So a human only dies as we never were created.

Born from sperm ovary always from two living adult humans.

Those two cell types combined form a human by a sex act.

There is no sex act for the first two fully adult present instant mass celled held one body bio types. Parents human.

As mass celled human isn't a one celled thesis.

Reason science sacrificed human life by its practice proved already that science hadn't created life.

To argue humans tried to claim science a human thought had invented all living bodies as a human god.
 

Apostle John

“Go ahead, look up Revelation 6”
It can be seen that Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah fulfilled many prophecies that are recorded in the Bible.

Thus, they also have evidence of fulfilled prophecies.

Regards Tony
Yes you’re correct they became false prophets as prophesied by the Lord Jesus. I was never able to get satisfactory evidence to state otherwise.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yes you’re correct they became false prophets as prophesied by the Lord Jesus. I was never able to get satisfactory evidence to state otherwise.

One must state what bad fruits you have as evidence, that they were false prophets. There are many records available about the Characters of both the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Remember this is about Prophecy and Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah are definitely foretold as being the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Woes.

It is great to ponder why a Messenger of God is also a Woe! Just as Jesus was before them.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
There are Prophecies that are given that are clear.

This Tablet was revealed in Arabic in honour of Ḥájí Muḥammad Ismá‘íl-i-Káshání, entitled Dhabíḥ (Sacrifice) and Anís (Companion) by Bahá’u’lláh, and addresses ‘Álí Páshá, the Ottoman Prime Minister, referred to here as Ra’ís (Chief or Ruler).

I quote a section

".........Hast thou imagined thyself capable of extinguishing the fire which God hath kindled in the heart of creation? Nay, by Him Who is the Eternal Truth, couldst thou but know it. Rather, on account of what thy hands have wrought, it blazed higher and burned more fiercely. Erelong will it encompass the earth and all that dwell therein. Thus hath it been decreed by God, and the powers of earth and heaven are unable to thwart His purpose.

The day is approaching when the Land of Mystery (Adrianople) and what is beside it shall be changed, and shall pass out of the hands of the King (Sulṭán ‘Abdu’l-‘Azíz) and commotions shall appear, and the voice of lamentation shall be raised, and the evidences of mischief shall be revealed on all sides, and confusion shall spread by reason of that which hath befallen these captives at the hands of the hosts of oppression. The course of things shall be altered, and conditions shall wax so grievous, that the very sands on the desolate hills will moan, and the trees on the mountain will weep, and blood will flow out of all things. Then wilt thou behold the people in sore distress....."

Sulṭán ‘Abdu’l-‘Azíz lost both his throne and his life in 1876. During the subsequent war with Russia (1877–1878), Adrianople was occupied by the enemy and the Turks experienced a violent bloodbath.

Found at this link:
The Summons of the Lord of Hosts | Bahá’í Reference Library

When we combine the Prophecies given, these individual tablets start painting the bigger picture of the future we will face, when we choose to turn away from God.

Regards Tony
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
About the only "prophecies" I'm onboard with are the prophecies of the return of Vishnu in his Kalki avatar and the return of Jesus, which I think is adapted from the Kalki prophecy. Both are predicted to return on a white horse with a sword. Now, if this is in the far future, that white horse could be some sort of vehicle, and the sword an advanced weapon. As Giorgio Tsoukalos (Ancient Aliens) says and does make sense, what seems miraculous or divine could be misunderstood technology by ancient peoples. They would have no idea what an airplane or some such vehicle is, so it was a giant bird to them. A ground vehicle could, through centuries, morph into a "horse". I don't think sounds any crazier than some others out there. :D
 

Apostle John

“Go ahead, look up Revelation 6”
One must state what bad fruits you have as evidence, that they were false prophets. There are many records available about the Characters of both the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Remember this is about Prophecy and Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah are definitely foretold as being the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Woes.

It is great to ponder why a Messenger of God is also a Woe! Just as Jesus was before them.

Regards Tony
The Lord Jesus prophesied and preached salvation, providing a way only through Him to gain entrance to heaven for His followers. Following other teachers/gurus, where there’s no hard evidence to substantiate what they say can only lead to woe and lot’s of it.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
About the only "prophecies" I'm onboard with are the prophecies of the return of Vishnu in his Kalki avatar and the return of Jesus, which I think is adapted from the Kalki prophecy. Both are predicted to return on a white horse with a sword. Now, if this is in the far future, that white horse could be some sort of vehicle, and the sword an advanced weapon. As Giorgio Tsoukalos (Ancient Aliens) says and does make sense, what seems miraculous or divine could be misunderstood technology by ancient peoples. They would have no idea what an airplane or some such vehicle is, so it was a giant bird to them. A ground vehicle could, through centuries, morph into a "horse". I don't think sounds any crazier than some others out there. :D

There is interpretation required as these are not literal people and literal horses, that are sued symbolically.

Apocalypse Unsealed: chapter 6

Screenshot_20230228-085202_Chrome.jpg


"...The thunder from the opening of the first seal is the noise of the violation of the Covenant. The white horse_/1 is Corrupted Theology, disguised with the color of purity but bent upon conquering the minds of men. Its rider is the Worldly Church, who holds in his hands the bow of propaganda. The crown given him is spiritual authority...."

Regards Tony
 
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