Gravitational Waves. oh really?

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

I don't think so.
According to special relativity, anything that moves at the velocity of light would be frozen
in its own local time. So it could not actually be moving at all from its own perspective.
Motion requires time to move.

So time for the gravity wave would stop. So the gravity wave could not move.

Of course, light could not move at all either in relativity, which is one basic reason
why special relativity makes no logical sense at all. (There are many such reasons).

So if gravitational waves were detected, this would actually refute relativity.
Of course, anything moving at the velocity of light refutes relativity.

What I would like to know, however, is do the gravity wave theorists follow Einstein's lead
and bluntly attempt to refute the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen experiments which claimed
to actually disprove Einstein's philosophical assumption that nothing can move faster than
the velocity of light?

And if so, then its just a case of which esoteric experiment is the real one?
Or perhaps,
Is Schrodinger's cat moving at the velocity of light, or can it teleport instantly?
(I hope the above question is not too subtle)

Another question springs to mind:
Are gravitational waves subject to gravitational lensing like photons are?

 

[Altfish]

All those scientists get it wrong again and a forum poster puts them right

Who would have expected that?

 

[Revoltingest]

Gravity waves are (as I understand it) the motion of a distortion of space time itself.
This wouldn't mean that local time would stop.

 

[Skwim]

Gravity waves are (as I understand it) the motion of a distortion of space time itself.
This wouldn't mean that local time would stop.

Hey, if J.A.B. says there's a problem involving relativity, then there' has to be a problem involving relativity because . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .well, because he's a curiositist and we're not. So there.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

I don't think so.
According to special relativity, anything that moves at the velocity of light would be frozen
in its own local time. So it could not actually be moving at all from its own perspective.
Motion requires time to move.

So time for the gravity wave would stop. So the gravity wave could not move.

Of course, light could not move at all either in relativity, which is one basic reason
why special relativity makes no logical sense at all. (There are many such reasons).

So if gravitational waves were detected, this would actually refute relativity.
Of course, anything moving at the velocity of light refutes relativity.

What I would like to know, however, is do the gravity wave theorists follow Einstein's lead
and bluntly attempt to refute the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen experiments which claimed
to actually disprove Einstein's philosophical assumption that nothing can move faster than
the velocity of light?

And if so, then its just a case of which esoteric experiment is the real one?
Or perhaps,
Is Schrodinger's cat moving at the velocity of light, or can it teleport instantly?
(I hope the above question is not too subtle)

Another question springs to mind:
Are gravitational waves subject to gravitational lensing like photons are?

I would recommend you read up on string theory.

 

[metis]

I don't think so.
According to special relativity, anything that moves at the velocity of light would be frozen
in its own local time. So it could not actually be moving at all from its own perspective.
Motion requires time to move.

So time for the gravity wave would stop. So the gravity wave could not move.

Of course, light could not move at all either in relativity, which is one basic reason
why special relativity makes no logical sense at all. (There are many such reasons).

So if gravitational waves were detected, this would actually refute relativity.
Of course, anything moving at the velocity of light refutes relativity.

What I would like to know, however, is do the gravity wave theorists follow Einstein's lead
and bluntly attempt to refute the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen experiments which claimed
to actually disprove Einstein's philosophical assumption that nothing can move faster than
the velocity of light?

And if so, then its just a case of which esoteric experiment is the real one?
Or perhaps,
Is Schrodinger's cat moving at the velocity of light, or can it teleport instantly?
(I hope the above question is not too subtle)

Another question springs to mind:
Are gravitational waves subject to gravitational lensing like photons are?

Why are you assuming that the speed of light was breached by these waves that might have spit our universe out? The speed of light is relative to the viewer, not the actual particle or wave. Secondly, during the 2nd inflation, the speed of light actually was breached relative to its epicenter according to mathematical models.

I'm not sure what you mean by "lensing", so I can't answer your last question.

 

[RRex]

This will "bake your noodle" -

There is no .

 

[Parsimony]

I think you've got some misunderstandings about how time dilation works. Time does not stop for an object travelling at the speed of light, it's the other way around: from a photon's perspective, a trip across light-years of space will seem to take no time at all to complete. Instead of perceiving time as stopping, it perceives it as moving infinitely quickly.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Parsimony is correct. For the (possible) graviton as for the photon travelling at the speed of light, time does not exist. But it exists for an observer. That is why an observer will record a wave. What will I see if I were traveling with the speed of light? - a frozen universe. Hope I am correct.

BTW, it is my 10,000th post at RF.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Parsimony is correct. For the (possible) graviton as for the photon travelling at the speed of light, time does not exist. But it exists for an observer. That is why an observer will record a wave. What will I see if I were traveling with the speed of light - a frozen universe. Hope I am correct.

BTW, it is my 10,000th post at RF.

Congratulations on the 10K posting mark! I always like reading your posts! Well, almost always...you know, there's the occasional one I won't care for...oh never mind! Great job!

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. you know, there's the occasional one I won't care for ..

You are kind. Yes, I might have erred somewhere. Please tell me, that will help me to improve.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I don't think so.
According to special relativity, anything that moves at the velocity of light would be frozen
in its own local time. So it could not actually be moving at all from its own perspective.
Motion requires time to move.

So time for the gravity wave would stop. So the gravity wave could not move.

Of course, light could not move at all either in relativity, which is one basic reason
why special relativity makes no logical sense at all. (There are many such reasons).

So if gravitational waves were detected, this would actually refute relativity.
Of course, anything moving at the velocity of light refutes relativity.

What I would like to know, however, is do the gravity wave theorists follow Einstein's lead
and bluntly attempt to refute the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen experiments which claimed
to actually disprove Einstein's philosophical assumption that nothing can move faster than
the velocity of light?

And if so, then its just a case of which esoteric experiment is the real one?
Or perhaps,
Is Schrodinger's cat moving at the velocity of light, or can it teleport instantly?
(I hope the above question is not too subtle)

Another question springs to mind:
Are gravitational waves subject to gravitational lensing like photons are?

It must be rather freeing to not know enough to be embarrassed.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

Well firstly I did not say that gravitational waves do not exist.
Those that know how to read will realize this.

What I said was that gravitational waves contradict time dilation,
so it would be illogical to accept both.

Let me put this another way, as nobody has even attempted to answer the question:

Are gravity waves subject to gravitational lensing?
(If any of you had a complete understanding of the situation there would have been a categorical answer)

Suppose a gravity wave is emitted from a black hole.
The gravity wave passes an ordinary galaxy half way to reaching us.
Will the gravity wave be distorted by the gravity field of the galaxy?

You may want to think about this quite a bit before posting.

 

[Riverwolf]

Are gravity waves subject to gravitational lensing?

Why not do the math yourself and find out? It's not like the equations are secret or locked behind paywalls.

 

[Thief]

I'm not buying the wave idea either....

I don't think of gravity as an emission.

It pulls.

 

[Riverwolf]

I don't think of gravity as an emission.

Good, because it's not.

Gravity is the distortion of spacetime by an object with mass.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I wonder how gravity waves applies to us walking around on the planet surface?

 

[Riverwolf]

I wonder how gravity waves applies to us walking around on the planet surface?

As I understand it, they don't. At least not to any noticable degree. The reason they've been so hard to detect is that they're TINY! Like, REALLY TINY.

This wave that got detected was emitted when two black holes collided. And even still, its effect was barely able to be detected by instruments designed to detect it. That should give you an idea of how tiny we're talking.

 

[Thief]

As I understand it, they don't. At least not to any noticable degree. The reason they've been so hard to detect is that they're TINY! Like, REALLY TINY.

This wave that got detected was emitted when two black holes collided. And even still, its effect was barely able to be detected by instruments designed to detect it. That should give you an idea of how tiny we're talking.

I heard it took 1.5billion yrs for the 'wave' to get here.

up closer it might have been a bit more "moving'......

I prefer to think of it this way.....
you're having a tug of war with a big guy.....a casual effort
another big guy runs into the first one....and for a amount there's an extra tug on the rope.

but the two of them are not really working to pull on you....
they're too busy fighting over the rope.

 

[Thief]

btw....time does not exist...not a force or substance
and space is empty.....that's why it's called space