Grace/Meal Blessing

[exchemist]

At dinner last night, my daughter’s boyfriends mother asked her to lead a pre-dinner prayer. Upon being put on the spot, she froze, so the mother asked me to lead (fairly certain she’s not aware I’m not a Christian). Since they’re Christian, I knew the expectation was, of course, a Christian prayer. I could have easily gone with the indoctrinated “bless us o Lord for these thy gifts which we are about to receive through thy bounty through Christ our Lord, amen” but I didn’t want to offer something that lacked sincerity. So I deferred to “the man of the house” (my daughter’s boyfriend), who froze as my daughter did. So ultimately, the mother led the prayer.

I saw nothing productive in sharing that I wasn’t Christian over dinner, but I may explain why I declined leading the prayer to the mother in private later today.

Placed in the same situation, how would you have handled being asked to lead such a prayer?

This is a tradition I have always really hated. It seems so po-faced and sanctimonious to inject a prayer, suddenly, into the middle of a celebration, when everyone has already had a glass or two of champagne.

Perhaps I would copy one of my father's teachers at his boarding school, who supposedly froze when asked to say grace and finally stammered: "For....for......for......for God's sake, sit down!" Or else, less iconoclastically, just fox 'em with "Benedictus benedicat" - short, sweet and incomprehensible.

 

[viole]

At dinner last night, my daughter’s boyfriends mother asked her to lead a pre-dinner prayer. Upon being put on the spot, she froze, so the mother asked me to lead (fairly certain she’s not aware I’m not a Christian). Since they’re Christian, I knew the expectation was, of course, a Christian prayer. I could have easily gone with the indoctrinated “bless us o Lord for these thy gifts which we are about to receive through thy bounty through Christ our Lord, amen” but I didn’t want to offer something that lacked sincerity. So I deferred to “the man of the house” (my daughter’s boyfriend), who froze as my daughter did. So ultimately, the mother led the prayer.

I saw nothing productive in sharing that I wasn’t Christian over dinner, but I may explain why I declined leading the prayer to the mother in private later today.

Placed in the same situation, how would you have handled being asked to lead such a prayer?

fortunately, that never happened to me. I would say things like that vanished in Europe.

On second thought, it would have been fun if it did. Probably I would have invoked Matthew so that the Lord magically turns that cheap bottle of wine on the table with a decent Ornellaia.

ciao

- viole

 

[oldbadger]

Perhaps I would copy one of my father's teachers at his boarding school, who supposedly froze when asked to say grace and finally stammered: "For....for......for......for God's sake, sit down!" Or else, less iconoclastically, just fox 'em with "Benedictus benedicat" - short, sweet and incomprehensible.

I went to a tough boarding school, and most duty masters spoke long graces before meals, but not one old dog who would wait for silence and then bawl 'Thank God!'. And that was it.... dig in!

 

[SomeRandom]

At dinner last night, my daughter’s boyfriends mother asked her to lead a pre-dinner prayer. Upon being put on the spot, she froze, so the mother asked me to lead (fairly certain she’s not aware I’m not a Christian). Since they’re Christian, I knew the expectation was, of course, a Christian prayer. I could have easily gone with the indoctrinated “bless us o Lord for these thy gifts which we are about to receive through thy bounty through Christ our Lord, amen” but I didn’t want to offer something that lacked sincerity. So I deferred to “the man of the house” (my daughter’s boyfriend), who froze as my daughter did. So ultimately, the mother led the prayer.

I saw nothing productive in sharing that I wasn’t Christian over dinner, but I may explain why I declined leading the prayer to the mother in private later today.

Placed in the same situation, how would you have handled being asked to lead such a prayer?

As you know I’m a born Hindu.
All the same I would have lead the prayer with ease. My closest family friends (I call them all mum and dad) are Christians and whenever we had a meal together we would always say Grace beforehand. My mum even admires it, seeing it as being grateful to the Lord and even lamenting that we don’t do so normally. Doing so rubs no skin off my nose, it is simply giving thanks and blessings.
Though one of the mum’s prayers does go on a for quite a bit. To the point where we all joke that she blesses the animal, the butcher who carved it, the Truck driver who delivered it to the store and the cashier who served her. Not forgetting the garbage man who picks up the leftovers the next day

 

[exchemist]

I went to a tough boarding school, and most duty masters spoke long graces before meals, but not one old dog who would wait for silence and then bawl 'Thank God!'. And that was it.... dig in!

There was a grace that supposedly did the rounds at Oxford colleges, when my mother was there during the post-war austerity era, which went like this:

For rabbits young and rabbits old,
rabbits hot and rabbits cold,
rabbits tender, rabbits tough,
we thank thee, Lord, we've had enough.

Ironically, she met my father through being the cook at a tree-felling summer camp he went to from university, during which one of her specialities was rabbit stew. (The undergrads liked it - and hence her - because it was cheap and good and they were funding the meals out of their wages.)

 

[exchemist]

fortunately, that never happened to me. I would say things like that vanished in Europe.

On second thought, it would have been fun if it did. Probably I would have invoked Matthew so that the Lord magically turns that cheap bottle of wine on the table with a decent Ornellaia.

ciao

- viole

That's interesting. I did not know this wine and had to look it up. The cepage seems to be a Bordeaux, rather than Sangiovese, which is odd for Tuscany, but it seems to have a very good reputation. I have never come across it in the UK, but maybe I should look out for it.

 

[SomeRandom]

Hmmm... You know, what's the point in being thankful to god in providing the food in the first place? The reason I have the food is from the work I did so I could buy it.

So, you should give thanks to your boss?

 

[SomeRandom]

This is a tradition I have always really hated. It seems so po-faced and sanctimonious to inject a prayer, suddenly, into the middle of a celebration, when everyone has already had a glass or two of champagne.

Eh, didn’t Jesus turn water into wine? I’m not convinced those boys were 100% sober when they made merry.

 

[Dawnofhope]

At dinner last night, my daughter’s boyfriends mother asked her to lead a pre-dinner prayer. Upon being put on the spot, she froze, so the mother asked me to lead (fairly certain she’s not aware I’m not a Christian). Since they’re Christian, I knew the expectation was, of course, a Christian prayer. I could have easily gone with the indoctrinated “bless us o Lord for these thy gifts which we are about to receive through thy bounty through Christ our Lord, amen” but I didn’t want to offer something that lacked sincerity. So I deferred to “the man of the house” (my daughter’s boyfriend), who froze as my daughter did. So ultimately, the mother led the prayer.

I saw nothing productive in sharing that I wasn’t Christian over dinner, but I may explain why I declined leading the prayer to the mother in private later today.

Placed in the same situation, how would you have handled being asked to lead such a prayer?

I personally would have led the prayer, but I consider myself as sharing many beliefs with the Christians and worshiping the same God. Your response was the best one for you IMHO.

 

[oldbadger]

There was a grace that supposedly did the rounds at Oxford colleges, when my mother was there during the post-war austerity era, which went like this:

For rabbits young and rabbits old,
rabbits hot and rabbits cold,
rabbits tender, rabbits tough,
we thank thee, Lord, we've had enough.

Ironically, she met my father through being the cook at a tree-felling summer camp he went to from university, during which one of her specialities was rabbit stew. (The undergrads liked it - and hence her - because it was cheap and good and they were funding the meals out of their wages.)

After the war my old man looked after Northumberland/Cumberland distribution for Shell. He always kept a shotgun in the car and if he ever crossed the Pennines he'd bring back a pheasant or partridge. If he went anywhere near Solway he would stop at Crown foreshore for any goose that got close enough.
Can't imagine anything like that now.

 

[oldbadger]

Eh, didn’t Jesus turn water into wine? I’m not convinced those boys were 100% sober when they made merry.

Jesus loved his meat and wine. The Baptist heard that he sometimes got inebriated. Says so...

 

[exchemist]

Eh, didn’t Jesus turn water into wine? I’m not convinced those boys were 100% sober when they made merry.

Sure but that's no reason to interrupt a jolly social occasion to be silent for a prayer inserted into the middle of the proceedings. It's awkward and embarrassing, especially since nowadays it is seldom that all the people round the table share the same religious beliefs, if any. It's kind of shoving your own faith down the throats of everyone else, ironically just before they eat. It's OK at a traditional formal banquet or something, in which it is all part of the ceremony of it and thus expected, but in your own house, with guests you've invited, I think it is out of place.

 

[exchemist]

After the war my old man looked after Northumberland/Cumberland distribution for Shell. He always kept a shotgun in the car and if he ever crossed the Pennines he'd bring back a pheasant or partridge. If he went anywhere near Solway he would stop at Crown foreshore for any goose that got close enough.
Can't imagine anything like that now.

Good man! One of my brothers used to be a travelling salesman in Norfolk and used to pick up pheasants really cheap from the roadside, probably poached. But he never shot them himself.

I have a really good recipe for rabbit stew with Dijon mustard, from Rick Stein, which has become a household favourite, especially now that we are supposed to cut down on eating ruminants, on account of the methane they produce. But I wouldn't want rabbit all the time.

A different brother regularly has a goose for Christmas - sort of retro Bob Cratchit. I'd like to try one, but we'd need a bigger group. So not on for Covid Tier 4. Maybe next year. Inshallah.

 

[SomeRandom]

Sure but that's no reason to interrupt a jolly social occasion to be silent for a prayer inserted into the middle of the proceedings. It's awkward and embarrassing, especially since nowadays it is seldom that all the people round the table share the same religious beliefs, if any. It's kind of shoving your own faith down the throats of everyone else, ironically just before they eat. It's OK at a traditional formal banquet or something, in which it is all part of the ceremony of it and thus expected, but in your own house, with guests you've invited, I think it is out of place.

I guess having grown up with the custom I never gave it any thought. I’m not Christian but at a Christian’s home I expect Grace because it’s a religious ritual, isn’t it?
It’s a reminder that although the day is joyful, it is (for some) a holy day as well.
I never felt insulted or forced into Christianity. It’s not like I was dragged to Church. In another’s home I respect the home owners beliefs.
It would be the same if I were to go to a Muslim’s house and they gave a prayer over the meal. I would observe out of civility and respect. But maybe that’s because I’m rather flippant about religion in general so I never really could see the big deal.

 

[exchemist]

I guess having grown up with the custom I never gave it any thought. I’m not Christian but at a Christian’s home I expect Grace because it’s a religious ritual, isn’t it?
It’s a reminder that although the day is joyful, it is (for some) a holy day.

Yeah but the place for religious ritual is church, in my view. Those for whom it is important have already celebrated the religious feast, long before they show up to eat.

 

[SomeRandom]

Jesus loved his meat and wine. The Baptist heard that he sometimes got inebriated. Says so...

Ha! I knew it!!

 

[SomeRandom]

Yeah but the place for religious ritual is church, in my view. Those for whom it is important have already celebrated the religious feast, long before they show up to eat.

I dunno.
I mean one doesn’t just stop being Jewish the moment they exit a Synagogue. For Christians Grace is often an integral part of their faith based practices. So I don’t really see the big deal in a Christian participating in their religion inside their own home, even in front of guests. Because it’s not like they’re going to pretend not to be Christian, least of all on Jesus’ birthday.
But then again, my family are rather lose Christians. It’s just a short thanks and they’ve always included my ma and I in their prayers and thanks. So maybe I just feel included and therefore have no real grumbles.
Though I understand that sometimes certain Christians can use it as an opportunity to proselytise or otherwise slightly shame non believers. Which is so not cool

 

[oldbadger]

Good man! One of my brothers used to be a travelling salesman in Norfolk and used to pick up pheasants really cheap from the roadside, probably poached. But he never shot them himself.

I have a really good recipe for rabbit stew with Dijon mustard, from Rick Stein, which has become a household favourite, especially now that we are supposed to cut down on eating ruminants, on account of the methane they produce. But I wouldn't want rabbit all the time.

A different brother regularly has a goose for Christmas - sort of retro Bob Cratchit. I'd like to try one, but we'd need a bigger group. So not on for Covid Tier 4. Maybe next year. Inshallah.

I was a wildfowler. But I was never really successful at roasting them. Canada goose is a dark meat, our geese here are lighter. I once shot a Brent by accident and my old man made me eat it...... never ever again.!!

 

[Heyo]

.
But then again, my family are rather lose Christians. It’s just a short thanks and they’ve always included my ma and I in their prayers and thanks. So maybe I just feel included and therefore have no real grumbles.

At least those people saying grace have manners. I don't care about the religious bit but it is, in my mind, a common courtesy to start eating together, initiated by a "have a good appetite" by the host for example (or a short prayer in a religious household).

 

[loverofhumanity]

At dinner last night, my daughter’s boyfriends mother asked her to lead a pre-dinner prayer. Upon being put on the spot, she froze, so the mother asked me to lead (fairly certain she’s not aware I’m not a Christian). Since they’re Christian, I knew the expectation was, of course, a Christian prayer. I could have easily gone with the indoctrinated “bless us o Lord for these thy gifts which we are about to receive through thy bounty through Christ our Lord, amen” but I didn’t want to offer something that lacked sincerity. So I deferred to “the man of the house” (my daughter’s boyfriend), who froze as my daughter did. So ultimately, the mother led the prayer.

I saw nothing productive in sharing that I wasn’t Christian over dinner, but I may explain why I declined leading the prayer to the mother in private later today.

Placed in the same situation, how would you have handled being asked to lead such a prayer?

It’s just a nice custom so there’s nothing wrong with saying it. Just so long as everyone was happy and enjoyed the evening.