Government ''manslaughter''of the homeless

[TheBrokenSoul]

The issue here is very broad and has too many elements to solve with just money.

Any issue can be solved with money and thinking . You can't take a homeless person and just put them up in a hotel , we litterally need to house them ''outdoors'' which sounds quite ironic but is theasable .

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

States used to have more institutions that housed those who are mentally ill or not self-sufficient. These places were often brutal and inhumane, but this was likely due to lack of resources, and the ethics of the era being less compassionate than today.

Most mental health issues are based on neuroligcal circumstance of past or present . Most homeless drink alcohol etc , in the right environment that can be used for good rather than bad in improving mental health .
I wouldn't want the homeless to stop drinking right away becuase I would use that to create Neurological Bio-electrics in a feel good way .

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

The issue here is very broad and has too many elements to solve with just money. It's also a problem with the social values of the USA, which includes looking after #1. There are many compassionate citizens that do donate time and money, but as a whole the USA is very conservative and not very compassionate. This is ironic given how many conservatives think they are Christians.


Brazil recently indicted its former leader for such crimes because he failed to put measures in place that would protect the public from Covid. In the USA politicians are protected from criminal indictment due to policies they put forth, otherwise trump would likely be indicted as well. England might have the same protections. So the police might have the power to arrest members of the government, but not the authority if there are no laws that can be adjudicated in court.

In the UK the gov have a duty of care to all the public, they work for us and we ''employ'' them . Our gov is in direct breach of duty of care for every homeless person who dies . They have the power and funds but willfully ignore this because they are arrogant and think they are better and above the homeless people and the general public .

The liberal party haven't got the guts to make an official demand and legal threat .

 

[The Hammer]

Who's to blame for not caring and letting these people die or suffer ?

We all are. Anyone can choose to help. Although it's not easy.

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

We all are. Anyone can choose to help. Although it's not easy.

Correct we can all choose to help and some of us try our best but can't afford to accomodate them directly which is the main goal . There is too many homeless charities and as a result of this the funds are spread out so sparse , they can't do direct accomodation although I suspect some of these charity bosses are just funding their lifestyle too .
I asked Boris directly and the Royal family for 1 million pounds on facebook and they didn't even have the decency or respect to reply .
I wanted to start a charity but there is red tape in the UK , such as so many trustees etc . Me , I would rather create a charity name and do a crowd funder that would directly accomodate the homeless and help them with mental health and bad habbits .
Unfortunately nobody that is rich or has the power seems bothered .

 

[The Hammer]

Correct we can all choose to help and some of us try our best but can't afford to accomodate them directly which is the main goal . There is too many homeless charities and as a result of this the funds are spread out so sparse , they can't do direct accomodation although I suspect some of these charity bosses are just funding their lifestyle too .
I asked Boris directly and the Royal family for 1 million pounds on facebook and they didn't even have the decency or respect to reply .
I wanted to start a charity but there is red tape in the UK , such as so many trustees etc . Me , I would rather create a charity name and do a crowd funder that would directly accomodate the homeless and help them with mental health and bad habbits .
Unfortunately nobody that is rich or has the power seems bothered .

You know who does all of those things you want/mentioned..... Social Workers (or w/e the UK equivalent is).

What your talking about doing is my wife's job.

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

You know who does all of those things you want/mentioned..... Social Workers (or w/e the UK equivalent is).

What your talking about doing is my wife's job.

Social workers don't have funding anymore and can't directly help the homeless . Most social workers are not trained in the Neurological Process so are missing key elements of education that helps to understand another persons Neurological Reference Frame and what they need to recover from their present Neurological Circumstance .
I am talking in the sense of business and a business that cares about the homeless . My business plan for a charity would be a profitable business plan for the charity , hence an accumalator program that could spread world wide within years .
Myself , I can do some construction work hands on approach and I am also educated in sciences which helps .
The charity would require social workers to visit and mental health professionals to visit . It would also require some government allowances .

 

[The Hammer]

Social workers don't have funding anymore and can't directly help the homeless . Most social workers are not trained in the Neurological Process so are missing key elements of education that helps to understand another persons Neurological Reference Frame and what they need to recover from their present Neurological Circumstance .
I am talking in the sense of business and a business that cares about the homeless . My business plan for a charity would be a profitable business plan for the charity , hence an accumalator program that could spread world wide within years .
Myself , I can do some construction work hands on approach and I am also educated in sciences which helps .
The charity would require social workers to visit and mental health professionals to visit . It would also require some government allowances .

Not true. Most licensed social workers are also Mental health professionals. Like I said, my wife is a social worker (with a Masters Degree), I've got a bit of first hand knowledge of what she does.

But maybe it's different across the pond.

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

Not true. Most licensed social workers are ALS Mental health professionals. Like I said, my wife is a social worker (with a Masters Degree), I've got a bit of first hand knowledge of what she does.

But maybe it's different across the pond.

Social workers in the UK are not trained to a masters degree I don't think . Tell your wife that anxiety is bio-electrical stimulus to the neurological reference frame via piezoelectrics of the human body , she should like this useful information and it will help her in her job .

 

[Yazata]

In a democratic country we vote for government parties to govern and have a duty of care over our affairs

I'm not sure that I agree with that. The proper role of government arguably isn't to play the role of peculiarly nonjudgmental accepting-of-everything parents over a population of people who chose to never grow up.

but each year people die from homelessness , ''froze'' to death etc .

Who's to blame for not caring and letting these people die or suffer ?

In many cases, the homeless person him or herself. But let's concentrate on those who are on the street for reasons that aren't their own fault.

I think that a large percentage of the homeless population suffer from mental illness. I don't know what the actual percentage is, whether it's more or less than 50%. Probably a great deal depends on how mental illness is diagnosed, and sadly that's still largely a matter of somebody's opinion, since there aren't any objective laboratory tests for psychiatric problems.

The same kind of population that we see on the streets today, at least the worst of them, were once housed in psychiatric hospitals. But beginning in the 1960s, these were shut down. Part of the explanation was journalistic exposés and some popular novels of the time that portrayed psychiatric asylums as hell on earth. We still see echoes of that in some of the horror movies of today. So a variety of well-meaning activists succeeded in getting most of the psychiatric hospitals shut down in favor of out-patient treatment.

The biggest problem is that nobody really knows how to effectively treat mental illness. Certainly not the major psychoses. The best that psychiatrists and clinical psychologists can do today is drug mental patients until their worst symptoms subside. Unfortunately the drugs have such devastating side effects that most mental patients would rather live with their symptoms, or self-treat themselves with opioids that while they don't improve the symptoms, make the individual feel good and not care any longer.

These people can't work, can't support themselves, and they end up on the street.

Public assistance used to put them up in cheap hotel rooms, in the 'single room occupancy' residential hotels. But pack too many psychiatric cases into those and they turn into psychiatric hospitals without staff. People screaming incoherently out their windows, assaulting each other and harming themselves, and openly dealing drugs. The police ended being called almost every night.

Then cities everywhere tore those residential hotels down as urban renewal measures, to eliminate urban blight. In San Francisco, they were replaced with upscale condos inhabited by a whole new population. The few residential hotels remaining today are filled with recent immigrants. So the psychiatric population that was once housed with public-assistance housing vouchers in those places has been forced out onto the streets. They still receive the public-assistance housing vouchers, but there's nowhere left that have rents low enough or are even willing to take them.

Then the cities set up homeless shelters. Except that they are so sordid, so filled with raving lunatics and so dangerous that most homeless people avoid them and prefer to live with their friends in their little encampments where they can use drugs freely, face less confrontation and physical threat and aren't being hassled constantly by social workers. Homeless people tend to avoid homeless shelters, for good reason.

In past centuries, this population was largely cared for by their families. Except that the extended family disappeared 50 or 100 years ago. And more recent feminism has pretty much destroyed the nuclear family as well. Today the public schools are expected by a growing number of people to take over the child raising functions that were once exercised by parents. It's a social experiment that's unprecedented in all of human history and I don't expect it to end well.

The point being that there's no family there any longer to take care of the crazy person, except perhaps a few people at the end of their own rope and unable to cope. Most of the unhoused psychiatric population don't have anyone willing and able to take them in, except their little circles of friends on the street, their fellow crazies.

The bottom line seems to be that nobody knows how to cure mental illness, and there's the fact that packing too many psychiatric individuals in close proximity creates severe problems of its own, not only for the individuals themselves but for the surrounding population as well. It's a problem that nobody at present knows how to solve.

 

[Kooky]

Who's to blame for not caring and letting these people die or suffer ?

Capitalism.

 

[PureX]

We all aren't in a position where we can help .

I've been thinking since I started this thread and I don't think religious leaders are really religious either because religion doesn't care about the homeless either .

These so called charities for the homeless are a wast eof time and donations too , their actions aren't direct enough .

I recon 100's if 1000's will die again this winter as a result of neglect by the government parties and leaders of countries .

We are all participants in a culture based on competition and selfishness instead of cooperation for our collective well-being. I think if most of us were given a choice, we would choose cooperation for our collective well-being, and yet we continue to allow the voices of greed and stupidity to rule the day, the years, and the centuries of mankind's time on Earth.

Why?

I don't know. Fear, I suppose. We're all so afraid that we'll be left behind and left without that we just can't find the courage to act on our behalf of each other. It's sad that we are such cowards that we can be ruled by a handful of the worst among us.

 

[Kooky]

I'm not sure that I agree with that. The proper role of government arguably isn't to play the role of peculiarly nonjudgmental accepting-of-everything parents over a population of people who chose to never grow up.



In many cases, the homeless person him or herself. But let's concentrate on those who are on the street for reasons that aren't their own fault.

I think that a large percentage of the homeless population suffer from mental illness. I don't know what the actual percentage is, whether it's more or less than 50%. Probably a great deal depends on how mental illness is diagnosed, and sadly that's still largely a matter of somebody's opinion, since there aren't any objective laboratory tests for psychiatric problems.

The same kind of population that we see on the streets today, at least the worst of them, were once housed in psychiatric hospitals. But beginning in the 1960s, these were shut down. Part of the explanation was journalistic exposés and some popular novels of the time that portrayed psychiatric asylums as hell on earth. We still see echoes of that in some of the horror movies of today. So a variety of well-meaning activists succeeded in getting most of the psychiatric hospitals shut down in favor of out-patient treatment.

The biggest problem is that nobody really knows how to effectively treat mental illness. Certainly not the major psychoses. The best that psychiatrists and clinical psychologists can do today is drug mental patients until their worst symptoms subside. Unfortunately the drugs have such devastating side effects that most mental patients would rather live with their symptoms, or self-treat themselves with opioids that while they don't improve the symptoms, make the individual feel good and not care any longer.

These people can't work, can't support themselves, and they end up on the street.

Public assistance used to put them up in cheap hotel rooms, in the 'single room occupancy' residential hotels. But pack too many psychiatric cases into those and they turn into psychiatric hospitals without staff. People screaming incoherently out their windows, assaulting each other and harming themselves, and openly dealing drugs. The police ended being called almost every night.

Then cities everywhere tore those residential hotels down as urban renewal measures, to eliminate urban blight. In San Francisco, they were replaced with upscale condos inhabited by a whole new population. The few residential hotels remaining today are filled with recent immigrants. So the psychiatric population that was once housed with public-assistance housing vouchers in those places has been forced out onto the streets. They still receive the public-assistance housing vouchers, but there's nowhere left that have rents low enough or are even willing to take them.

Then the cities set up homeless shelters. Except that they are so sordid, so filled with raving lunatics and so dangerous that most homeless people avoid them and prefer to live with their friends in their little encampments where they can use drugs freely, face less confrontation and physical threat and aren't being hassled constantly by social workers. Homeless people tend to avoid homeless shelters, for good reason.

In past centuries, this population was largely cared for by their families. Except that the extended family disappeared 50 or 100 years ago. And more recent feminism has pretty much destroyed the nuclear family as well. Today the public schools are expected by a growing number of people to take over the child raising functions that were once exercised by parents. It's a social experiment that's unprecedented in all of human history and I don't expect it to end well.

The point being that there's no family there any longer to take care of the crazy person, except perhaps a few people at the end of their own rope and unable to cope. Most of the unhoused psychiatric population don't have anyone willing and able to take them in, except their little circles of friends on the street, their fellow crazies.

The bottom line seems to be that nobody knows how to cure mental illness, and there's the fact that packing too many psychiatric individuals in close proximity creates severe problems of its own, not only for the individuals themselves but for the surrounding population as well. It's a problem that nobody at present knows how to solve.

Here is what the National Coalition for the Homeless says:

Two trends are largely responsible for the rise in homelessness over the past 20-25 years: a growing shortage of affordable rental housing and a simultaneous increase in poverty.

 

[Kooky]

There are three types of homelessness – chronic, transitional, and episodic – which can be defined as follows:

• Chronic Homelessness
  • Persons most like the stereotyped profile of the “skid-row” homeless, who are likely to be entrenched in the shelter system and for whom shelters are more like long-term housing rather than an emergency arrangement. These individuals are likely to be older, and consist of the “hard-core unemployed”, often suffering from disabilities and substance abuse problems. Yet such persons represent a far smaller proportion of the population compared to the transitionally homeless.
  Transitional Homelessness
  • Transitionally homeless individuals generally enter the shelter system for only one stay and for a short period. Such persons are likely to be younger, are probably recent members of the precariously housed population and have become homeless because of some catastrophic event, and have been forced to spend a short time in a homeless shelter before making a transition into more stable housing. Over time, transitionally homeless individuals will account for the majority of persons experiencing homelessness given their higher rate of turnover.
  Episodic Homelessness
  • Those who frequently shuttle in and out of homelessness are known as episodically homeless. They are most likely to be young, but unlike those in transitional homelessness, episodically homeless individuals often are chronically unemployed and experience medical, mental health, and substance abuse problems.

( Source: Homelessness in America - National Coalition for the Homeless )

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

We are all participants in a culture based on competition and selfishness instead of cooperation for our collective well-being. I think if most of us were given a choice, we would choose cooperation for our collective well-being, and yet we continue to allow the voices of greed and stupidity to rule the day, the years, and the centuries of mankind's time on Earth.

Why?

I don't know. Fear, I suppose. We're all so afraid that we'll be left behind and left without that we just can't find the courage to act on our behalf of each other. It's sad that we are such cowards that we can be ruled by a handful of the worst among us.

The powers that be set out laws that prevent uprisings by the normal people of the world . The armies and police protect these laws as if they are in the best interest of humanity . They also set out laws for soldiers and police officers that prevent them joining any uprisings . They class it as civil unrest but the truth is , it is often just people who have had enough of being dictated too . They call it civil obedience and this must be obeyed because it fuels the ''machine'' of money and power . We don't fear the rich and powerful , we fear our own armies and policing that protect the ''machine' .

 

[Kooky]

• HUD found 549,928 individuals to be homeless on a single night in January 2016. Most homeless persons (65%) are individuals while 35% of homeless persons are in family households.
• The number of families experiencing homelessness has increased significantly from past years. For example, in 2013 only 15% of homeless persons were in family households.
• 31% of all homeless people were youths under the age of 24.
• Close to 40,000 veterans were homeless on a single night in January 2016. 66% were residing in shelters or transitional housing programs, while 33% were without shelter.
• The number of those in homeless shelters or transitional housing was split almost equally between people in families (47%) and individuals (53%).
• Five states, California (22%), New York (16%), Florida (6%), Texas (4%), and Washington (4%), accounted for more than half of the homeless population in the United States in 2016.

Homelessness in America - National Coalition for the Homeless

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

Here is what the National Coalition for the Homeless says:

Two trends are largely responsible for the rise in homelessness over the past 20-25 years: a growing shortage of affordable rental housing and a simultaneous increase in poverty.

Yes I could agree that those two elements do and will have impact but there is other factors to consider . In example the UK is presently accomodating immigrants who have chosen to leave their homes before the homeless people of UK .
However , I can construct affordable accomodation for about 1000 pound per unit . The cost of this may even be reduced in bulk supply and demand trade deals .

 

[Kooky]

Yes I could agree that those two elements do and will have impact but there is other factors to consider . In example the UK is presently accomodating immigrants before the homeless people of UK .

Plenty of immigrants are homeless, too.

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

I'm not sure that I agree with that. The proper role of government arguably isn't to play the role of peculiarly nonjudgmental accepting-of-everything parents over a population of people who chose to never grow up.



In many cases, the homeless person him or herself. But let's concentrate on those who are on the street for reasons that aren't their own fault.

I think that a large percentage of the homeless population suffer from mental illness. I don't know what the actual percentage is, whether it's more or less than 50%. Probably a great deal depends on how mental illness is diagnosed, and sadly that's still largely a matter of somebody's opinion, since there aren't any objective laboratory tests for psychiatric problems.

The same kind of population that we see on the streets today, at least the worst of them, were once housed in psychiatric hospitals. But beginning in the 1960s, these were shut down. Part of the explanation was journalistic exposés and some popular novels of the time that portrayed psychiatric asylums as hell on earth. We still see echoes of that in some of the horror movies of today. So a variety of well-meaning activists succeeded in getting most of the psychiatric hospitals shut down in favor of out-patient treatment.

The biggest problem is that nobody really knows how to effectively treat mental illness. Certainly not the major psychoses. The best that psychiatrists and clinical psychologists can do today is drug mental patients until their worst symptoms subside. Unfortunately the drugs have such devastating side effects that most mental patients would rather live with their symptoms, or self-treat themselves with opioids that while they don't improve the symptoms, make the individual feel good and not care any longer.

These people can't work, can't support themselves, and they end up on the street.

Public assistance used to put them up in cheap hotel rooms, in the 'single room occupancy' residential hotels. But pack too many psychiatric cases into those and they turn into psychiatric hospitals without staff. People screaming incoherently out their windows, assaulting each other and harming themselves, and openly dealing drugs. The police ended being called almost every night.

Then cities everywhere tore those residential hotels down as urban renewal measures, to eliminate urban blight. In San Francisco, they were replaced with upscale condos inhabited by a whole new population. The few residential hotels remaining today are filled with recent immigrants. So the psychiatric population that was once housed with public-assistance housing vouchers in those places has been forced out onto the streets. They still receive the public-assistance housing vouchers, but there's nowhere left that have rents low enough or are even willing to take them.

Then the cities set up homeless shelters. Except that they are so sordid, so filled with raving lunatics and so dangerous that most homeless people avoid them and prefer to live with their friends in their little encampments where they can use drugs freely, face less confrontation and physical threat and aren't being hassled constantly by social workers. Homeless people tend to avoid homeless shelters, for good reason.

In past centuries, this population was largely cared for by their families. Except that the extended family disappeared 50 or 100 years ago. And more recent feminism has pretty much destroyed the nuclear family as well. Today the public schools are expected by a growing number of people to take over the child raising functions that were once exercised by parents. It's a social experiment that's unprecedented in all of human history and I don't expect it to end well.

The point being that there's no family there any longer to take care of the crazy person, except perhaps a few people at the end of their own rope and unable to cope. Most of the unhoused psychiatric population don't have anyone willing and able to take them in, except their little circles of friends on the street, their fellow crazies.

The bottom line seems to be that nobody knows how to cure mental illness, and there's the fact that packing too many psychiatric individuals in close proximity creates severe problems of its own, not only for the individuals themselves but for the surrounding population as well. It's a problem that nobody at present knows how to solve.

I will reply to your post later on as it is extensive , I want to re-read it over when it is quiet in my household .

 

[RestlessSoul]

We all aren't in a position where we can help .

I've been thinking since I started this thread and I don't think religious leaders are really religious either because religion doesn't care about the homeless either .

These so called charities for the homeless are a wast eof time and donations too , their actions aren't direct enough .

I recon 100's if 1000's will die again this winter as a result of neglect by the government parties and leaders of countries .

We can all buy a homeless person a cup of tea though, at least. I actually buy the tea and give it to them, never had a cup refused yet, though many would rather have a can of Special Brew (and who can blame them?)