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Gospels nonliteral? I argue so.

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
When Jesus speaks in Matthew or Mark or Luke or John he is a Jew speaking to other Jews, and I do not think that he is speaking of things gentiles must do in every case. All of the gospels are written in a way that prevents them from being read either as a straight message to a gentile reader or literally by a Jewish reader.
  • Gospels use the term 'Fulfillment' in a non literal way yet give no indication of this in its usage unless the reader is familiar already with the allusions.
  • Jesus in the four gospels is speaking to other Jews with few exceptions.
  • Very strange are claims that miracles can attest to God's support for Jesus -- a ridiculous and unlawful test, impossible to take literally if you follow Torah. It would be a sin to follow someone because they were a wonder worker. The claims are either not literal or are lies, but they are not lies. They only become lies in the mouth. Moses' warning (Deuteronomy 13) against accepting miracles as testimony for a prophet is not part of the ten commandments, no; however it does rest on the commandment to judge fairly and on other bedrock commandments. Fact is, Jews (and probably Christians I think) must not listen to someone on the basis of miraculous powers, ever except to test their words. The miracles themselves are of value only as teaching tools not as proofs.
  • We mustn't base principles upon miracles. Principles must be based on ideas and more principles; and miracles are merely a challenge to test what is being spoken.
Christianity is not properly based on miracles at all despite all of its stories about miracles, nor is it based on the gospels despite what the Gideons would claim as they scatter gospels like survival kits. Every practical aspect of Christianity has a practical basis and reasoning, and I mean everything from atonement to baptism. Paul points out everything that can be known about God is plain from nature, so there you go. You have a basis to start with, and its not the gospels. Its based on principles and hopes drawn from the Torah and the prophets which themselves make observations in nature. Christianity is an effort to bring about the renewal of this world, and this is no secret. Its simply not explicitly explained in the gospels, since they are not written to gentiles. The gospels are plainly not instructive by themselves for gentiles as many have been mislead by their misuse. Its true we love them, but we also love ignoring the principles in them. Paul would not refer to them as food for babes. They are for dedicated persons trained in good works, practiced in both compassion and self discipline and who also catch all of the allusions in them. They are about 110% allusion to older passages. You can't read anything in the NT without reading an allusion to something else. Its not basic material, not for noobs and not literal.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Christianity is not properly based on miracles

Or as John 4:48 put it: Then said Jesus unto him, Except you see signs and wonders, you will not believe.

And that to me says that miracles were performed because of the nature of the people living then.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Or as John 4:48 put it: Then said Jesus unto him, Except you see signs and wonders, you will not believe.

And that to me says that miracles were performed because of the nature of the people living then.
That is a resourceful quote mine! Nice. On its face it appears these people believe on the basis of miracles. I can't defend their actions, because they are doing a wrong thing by not relying upon their faculties. Even though this appears to go against what Moses says in Deuteronomy 13 I will not throw out John. I think all of these miracle stories are here as lessons, because each one comes with one or more lessons. In that sense they are like parables. Generally they challenge an assumption. For example there is the blind man healed on a Sabbath, and the challenge is that some claim his blindness proves he was affected by sin. Jesus argues against this, and thus the miracle has a goal: a lesson.
 
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