Gospels and Shiite hadiths match up.

[Link]

I believe one must ask: Who will judge them. I can because I have the Paraclete but Muslims do not have that advantage.

This is sort of dialogue (I am guided, I have holy spirit, you don't) doesn't bring anything to the table.

 

[Link]

As for the Imams (a), they compliment the Quran in a miraculous way. Without them, the Quran will not be illuminated.

 

[Muffled]

This is sort of dialogue (I am guided, I have holy spirit, you don't) doesn't bring anything to the table.

I believe God is omniscient. Everything can be on the table.

 

[Muffled]

As for the Imams (a), they compliment the Quran in a miraculous way. Without them, the Quran will not be illuminated.

I believe it is as Jesus said: the blind leading the blind.

 

[Link]

I believe it is as Jesus said: the blind leading the blind.

This is true, but irrelevant.

 

[Link]

In that day you will not question Me about anything. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you. Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be made full.
Source: 17 Bible verses about Asking In Jesus Name

اَللَّهُمَّ إِنِّي أَسْأَلُكَ وَأَتَوَجَّهُ إِلَيْكَ
allahumma inni as'aluka wa atawajjahu ilayka
O Allah, I beseech You and turn my face toward You

بِنَبِيِّكَ نَبِيِّ ٱلرَّحْمَةِ
binabiyyika nabiyyi alrrahmati
in the name of Your Prophet; the Prophet of Mercy,

مُحَمَّدٍ صَلَّىٰ ٱللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِهِ
muhammadin salla allahu `alayhi wa alihi
Muhammad—may Allah send blessings to him and his Household.

يَا أَبَا ٱلْقَاسِمِ
ya aba alqasimi
O Abu’l-Qasim!

يَا رَسُولَ ٱللَّهِ
ya rasula allahi
O Allah’s Messenger!

يَا إِمَامَ ٱلرَّحْمَةِ
ya imama alrrahmati
O Chief of Mercy!

يَا سَيِّدَنَا وَمَوْلاَنَا
ya sayyidana wa mawlana
O our master and chief!

إِنَّا تَوَجَّهْنَا وَٱسْتَشْفَعْنَا
inna tawajjahana wastashfa`na
We are turning our faces toward you, seeking your intercession

وَتَوَسَّلْنَا بِكَ إِلَىٰ ٱللَّهِ
wa tawassalna bika ila allahi
and your advocacy for us before Allah;

وَقَدَّمْنَاكَ بَيْنَ يَدَيْ حَاجَاتِنَا
wa qaddamnaka bayna yaday hajatina
and we are presenting you [as our intermediary] for the settlement of our needs.

يَا وَجِيهاً عِنْدَ ٱللَّهِ
ya wajihan `inda allahi
O well-esteemed with Allah,

إِشْفَعْ لَنَا عِنْدَ ٱللَّهِ
ishfa` lana `inda allahi
intercede for us before Allah.

Source: Dua Tawassul- Duas.org

 

[Link]

@Soapy, I will be adding more, but want your feedback.

 

[Soapy]

Reason sees the proper context of statements and puts it all together. I believe trinity happens only when you take statements outside their proper place.

The Shiite hadiths are seen a long with Quran. This is why there is no misunderstanding and we don't worship our Imams.

I agree with all who oppose trinity in respect only of the opposition. I cannot speak for the views of the opposers to trinity as I am completely inexperienced in such other beliefs.

I agree wholeheartedly that many trinitarian renderings of scriptures are the works of malicious translators often under the orders of Catholic masters. In effect, the translators were ordered to attempt and to make changes that were trinity based… hence the many discrepancies found and the odd readings of some verses.

Why, for instance, when nothing was mentioned about God, did a translation claim that:

• “God came in the flesh…”
• “Was SEEN by angels …”
• “Was TAKEN UP in glory…”

How in God’s name could this by talking about ALMIGHTY GOD?

 

[Link]

I agree with all who oppose trinity in respect only of the opposition. I cannot speak for the views of the opposers to trinity as I am completely inexperienced in such other beliefs.

I agree wholeheartedly that many trinitarian renderings of scriptures are the works of malicious translators often under the orders of Catholic masters. In effect, the translators were ordered to attempt and to make changes that were trinity based… hence the many discrepancies found and the odd readings of some verses.

Why, for instance, when nothing was mentioned about God, did a translation claim that:

• “God came in the flesh…”
• “Was SEEN by angels …”
• “Was TAKEN UP in glory…”

How in God’s name could this by talking about ALMIGHTY GOD?

Salam

Thanks for showing up. What do you make of the parallels in Shiite hadiths? You don't have to believe/acknowledge, just want to hear what you think of the parallels.

 

[Soapy]

Salam

Thanks for showing up. What do you make of the parallels in Shiite hadiths? You don't have to believe/acknowledge, just want to hear what you think of the parallels.

I think they are Reverend towards ‘Allah’ and I agree that ‘Allah’ is the same God as Christian’s call ‘YHWH’.

Yes, I see many parallels and that is a good thing and a reality since the trinitarian equivalent is refactored to fit the fallacious trinity belief. For instance, in Christianity, if God had said his name was ‘Allah’, would you say that Jesus was claiming to be God in answering the Jews: ‘Before Abraham, Allah’? In case you don’t know, Trinitarians claimed that Jesus claimed he ‘was’ God in saying, ‘Before Abraham, I am’, with ‘I am’ being claimed as the name of God. Of course, common sense says that ‘I am’ is not a name but only the meaning of ‘YHWH’.

The scriptures says that ‘The rock that followed the Israelites in the wilderness was Christ’. Now if we are to use the meaning of the name, ‘Peter’ (‘the rock’ or ‘the Stone’) then we would have this: ‘Peter followed the Israelites in the wilderness and was Christ’!

I’ve shown trinitarian their error in so many ways but even if they see the reality that Jesus was merely saying to the Jews that he was indeed greater than Abraham and that the word ‘Before’ is a meaning of ‘Greater’, they cannot be seen to be believing the truth. They argue that the Jews wanted to kill Jesus for claiming to be God but that’s not true: they were angry with Jesus FOR CLAIMING THAT HE WAS GREATER THAN THEIR GREAT FOREFATHER, Abraham!!! I can see why they would be angry: they did not know Jesus apart from through his mother, and adopted Father, AND the Jews were expecting a WARRIOR KING, not a mild mannered prophet speaking peace and live your enemy (since the Jews hated their Roman overlords!)

No! The thinking of the Trinitarians is wrong towards who Jesus actually claimed to be and what the scriptures actually says. If even the Old Testament is taken into consideration there is absolutely nothing that even vaguely alludes to Jesus being God!

 

[Brian2]

No! The thinking of the Trinitarians is wrong towards who Jesus actually claimed to be and what the scriptures actually says. If even the Old Testament is taken into consideration there is absolutely nothing that even vaguely alludes to Jesus being God!

The Old Testament offers plenty of evidence for Jesus being God especially when compared to the what the New Testament says.

 

[Soapy]

The Old Testament offers plenty of evidence for Jesus being God especially when compared to the what the New Testament says.

How’s that, Brian2?

Jesus said that the prophets spoke about him. And those things the prophets spoke of were only them coming to fruition.

A prophesy is a future event, a foretelling.

• “19Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.” (John 5:19-23)
• “26For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.” (John 5:26-27)

Here, Jesus speaks of being only ably to do what he first sees the Father doing - what the Father SHOWS him of what He is doing. The son receives ‘spiritual honor’ after he does what the Father first teaches him to do.

God may show Jesus what He is doing but He doesn’t show Jesus ALL THAT HE IS PLANNING to do!

Two factors are out of kilter here:

1. Your Jesus appears to being able to do even what the Father has not yet done - counter to what Jesus himself says!
2. Your Jesus appears to know what God is planning - counter to what Jesus himself says!

We are therefore debating two different religious beliefs!

• “35John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light. 36“I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life.” (John 5:36-40)

Jesus, here, speaks of John the Baptist as a light that came into the world (‘Light’ means ‘Truth’). But johns light was only for a period (like the wick that lights the full candle!) Jesus’ light is GREATER THAN John’s. This is reflection and a qualifier for the incident in which the Jews desired to know of Jesus was greater than Abraham. Jesus answered them that he was indeed greater than Abraham since Abraham spoke of the future glorious times of Jesus. John also spoke of the glorious future time of Jesus - and note the reason that the birth of John was mentioned in scriptures: because John was older than Jesus, just as Abraham is (obviously) older than Jesus. How many Bible students and even maters miss this connection!

Jesus emphasises that the scriptures testify about him. And that is true from many verses in the O.T.

• “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.” (Isaiah 42:1)

is one clear verse. Other verses speak of Jesus future ultimate rulership over creation… God’s rulership is past, present, and future over both Heaven and earth: Eternal, hence his name, ‘YHWH’ (which, in meaning from Hebrew, is ‘I Am’…. He just IS’, never changes!)

((Brian2, I know you are playing tomfoolery here in your posts. But please be spiritually warned that such behaviour is ungodly. Even in simplicity, it points out that trinity is false else you would not need to post falsely to try to defend it.))

 

[Brian2]

How’s that, Brian2?

Jesus said that the prophets spoke about him. And those things the prophets spoke of were only them coming to fruition.

A prophesy is a future event, a foretelling.

• “19Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.” (John 5:19-23)
• “26For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.” (John 5:26-27)

Here, Jesus speaks of being only ably to do what he first sees the Father doing - what the Father SHOWS him of what He is doing. The son receives ‘spiritual honor’ after he does what the Father first teaches him to do.

God may show Jesus what He is doing but He doesn’t show Jesus ALL THAT HE IS PLANNING to do!

Two factors are out of kilter here:

1. Your Jesus appears to being able to do even what the Father has not yet done - counter to what Jesus himself says!
2. Your Jesus appears to know what God is planning - counter to what Jesus himself says!

We are therefore debating two different religious beliefs!

• “35John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light. 36“I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life.” (John 5:36-40)

Jesus, here, speaks of John the Baptist as a light that came into the world (‘Light’ means ‘Truth’). But johns light was only for a period (like the wick that lights the full candle!) Jesus’ light is GREATER THAN John’s. This is reflection and a qualifier for the incident in which the Jews desired to know of Jesus was greater than Abraham. Jesus answered them that he was indeed greater than Abraham since Abraham spoke of the future glorious times of Jesus. John also spoke of the glorious future time of Jesus - and note the reason that the birth of John was mentioned in scriptures: because John was older than Jesus, just as Abraham is (obviously) older than Jesus. How many Bible students and even maters miss this connection!

Jesus emphasises that the scriptures testify about him. And that is true from many verses in the O.T.

• “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.” (Isaiah 42:1)

is one clear verse. Other verses speak of Jesus future ultimate rulership over creation… God’s rulership is past, present, and future over both Heaven and earth: Eternal, hence his name, ‘YHWH’ (which, in meaning from Hebrew, is ‘I Am’…. He just IS’, never changes!)

((Brian2, I know you are playing tomfoolery here in your posts. But please be spiritually warned that such behaviour is ungodly. Even in simplicity, it points out that trinity is false else you would not need to post falsely to try to defend it.))

I think you made a mistake. John the Baptist said that Jesus was before him. John was 6 months older than John the Baptist but Jesus was before him.

John 1:29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is He of whom I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because He was before me.’

But that is not what I was going to say. Prophets say more than predictions in the OT.
Here is something Isaiah said that gives us information as well as prediction.

Isa 8:13The LORD of Hosts is the One you shall regard as holy. Only He should be feared; only He should be dreaded. 14And He will be a sanctuary— but to both houses of Israel a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, to the dwellers of Jerusalem a trap and a snare.

Notice that Isaiah speaks of YHWH when he said this.
Notice in the following epistle that Peter uses a quote from Isa 8:14 and applies it to Jesus.

1Peter 2:7To you who believe, then, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” 8and, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word— and to this they were appointed.

Here is something else Isaiah said.

Isa 44:24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who by Myself spread out the earth,
This is not a prediction and it is about YHWH.

Here is a quote from Psalm 102 about God.
Psalm 102:24 So I said:
“Do not take me away, my God, in the midst of my days;
your years go on through all generations.
25 In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
26 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
Like clothing you will change them
and they will be discarded.
27 But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.

The same passage is applied to Jesus at Hebrews 1:10-12
So we can see just in these few passages that the OT, especially when compared to what the NT says, shows Jesus to be God/YHWH.

 

[Soapy]

I think you made a mistake. John the Baptist said that Jesus was before him. John was 6 months older than John the Baptist but Jesus was before him.

John 1:29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is He of whom I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because He was before me.’

But that is not what I was going to say. Prophets say more than predictions in the OT.
Here is something Isaiah said that gives us information as well as prediction.

Isa 8:13The LORD of Hosts is the One you shall regard as holy. Only He should be feared; only He should be dreaded. 14And He will be a sanctuary— but to both houses of Israel a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, to the dwellers of Jerusalem a trap and a snare.

Notice that Isaiah speaks of YHWH when he said this.
Notice in the following epistle that Peter uses a quote from Isa 8:14 and applies it to Jesus.

1Peter 2:7To you who believe, then, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” 8and, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word— and to this they were appointed.

Here is something else Isaiah said.

Isa 44:24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who by Myself spread out the earth,
This is not a prediction and it is about YHWH.

Here is a quote from Psalm 102 about God.
Psalm 102:24 So I said:
“Do not take me away, my God, in the midst of my days;
your years go on through all generations.
25 In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
26 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
Like clothing you will change them
and they will be discarded.
27 But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.

The same passage is applied to Jesus at Hebrews 1:10-12
So we can see just in these few passages that the OT, especially when compared to what the NT says, shows Jesus to be God/YHWH.

Oh dear, Brian2…. Oh dear dear dear!!!

Those verses are indeed about ALMIGHTY GOD, YHWH, the Father….

Are you trying fruitlessly to say that Jesus is the Father?

Remember that ‘Father’ means:

• “He that creates…”
• “He that brings into being…”
• “He that gives life to…”

God created the world and all within, that’s why he is called ‘Father’.

Jesus is not called ‘Father’, he is called ‘Son’.

A ‘Son’ does what his Father directs him to do. Jesus says he only does what his Father directs him to do!

Jesus never tried to usurp the greatness of his Father God. He confesses that the Father is greater than he, and the only one that is ‘Good’! (Please don’t stress the term, ‘Good’. You know what it means!: Jesus is man, capable of sinning. God is eternally holy, incapable of sinning!)

The aspect of John the Baptist saying that Jesus is ‘Before’ him is exactly where Trinitarians go wrong in terms of interpretation. But truly, trinity teachers know that the word is actually, ‘GREATER THAN’. Even STRONGS points this out. It is a fact that Trinitarians purposely mistranslate the word when they realise the opportunity to claim an untruth!
The Greek ‘Protos’ means:

• ‘Comes first’, ‘Ahead’, ‘in priority’ … of greatness

As I pointed out, this is the same situation with Jesus versus the Jews concerning Abraham. Jesus is ‘Protos’ over Abraham. What sense is there to say:

• ‘Before Abraham was, God!’

No! Jesus literally replied:

• ‘Yes, I am BEFORE Abraham …. because even Abraham FORESAW MY DAY and was glad’

Abraham, …. You know all this….

Abraham was told by God that the saviour would come from his (Abraham’s) seed…

And as for Jesus ‘remaining the same’… can you count the amount of times Jesus ‘changes’ even from your trinity ‘was God but changed to man’?

Didnt Jesus Die! And was reborn? And his mortal body was made immortal… “I was dead but am now alive forevermore”…
and he was raised up to Heaven BY GOD, and made to rule…for a period of time..

He was ADOPTED by God: “This day you have become a Son to me and I have become to you a Father”

Just a few times then, eh!!

Brian2, why are you posting so mischievously? This is doing your spiritual health no good.

 

[Brian2]

Oh dear, Brian2…. Oh dear dear dear!!!

Those verses are indeed about ALMIGHTY GOD, YHWH, the Father….

Are you trying fruitlessly to say that Jesus is the Father?

No Jesus not the Father.

Remember that ‘Father’ means:

• “He that creates…”
• “He that brings into being…”
• “He that gives life to…”

God created the world and all within, that’s why he is called ‘Father’.

Jesus is not called ‘Father’, he is called ‘Son’.

A ‘Son’ does what his Father directs him to do. Jesus says he only does what his Father directs him to do!

Jesus is called Mighty God, Eternal Father (Isa 9:6)
The Father is greater than the Son but not better. They are exactly alike in all ways. But of course a Father has authority over a Son.

Jesus never tried to usurp the greatness of his Father God. He confesses that the Father is greater than he, and the only one that is ‘Good’! (Please don’t stress the term, ‘Good’. You know what it means!: Jesus is man, capable of sinning. God is eternally holy, incapable of sinning!)

Jesus has a proven track record of being good. His righteousness is proven because He did not sin.

The aspect of John the Baptist saying that Jesus is ‘Before’ him is exactly where Trinitarians go wrong in terms of interpretation. But truly, trinity teachers know that the word is actually, ‘GREATER THAN’. Even STRONGS points this out. It is a fact that Trinitarians purposely mistranslate the word when they realise the opportunity to claim an untruth!
The Greek ‘Protos’ means:

• ‘Comes first’, ‘Ahead’, ‘in priority’ … of greatness

The fact that Jesus existed before John the Baptist has nothing to do with the trinity. I don't mind if your translation is correct.
But of course because you believe that Jesus did not exist until He was born as a man, it has a lot to do with what you believe.
John 1:30 is a drop in the bucket of passages that show Jesus existed before He became a man.

As I pointed out, this is the same situation with Jesus versus the Jews concerning Abraham. Jesus is ‘Protos’ over Abraham. What sense is there to say:

• ‘Before Abraham was, God!’

No! Jesus literally replied:

• ‘Yes, I am BEFORE Abraham …. because even Abraham FORESAW MY DAY and was glad’

Abraham, …. You know all this….

Abraham was told by God that the saviour would come from his (Abraham’s) seed…

Why do you think that the Jews wanted to stone Him just because He said what you claim that He said.

And as for Jesus ‘remaining the same’… can you count the amount of times Jesus ‘changes’ even from your trinity ‘was God but changed to man’?

Didnt Jesus Die! And was reborn? And his mortal body was made immortal… “I was dead but am now alive forevermore”…
and he was raised up to Heaven BY GOD, and made to rule…for a period of time..

He was ADOPTED by God: “This day you have become a Son to me and I have become to you a Father”

Just a few times then, eh!!

Brian2, why are you posting so mischievously? This is doing your spiritual health no good.

You are saying that the New Testament is not right when it tells us that Jesus has not changed it seems.
Heb 1:10 He also says,
“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”

Heb 13: 8Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

 

[Soapy]

No Jesus not the Father.

YHWH is almighty God, and Father.

Jesus is Son, MADE in the image of God… and REMAINED perfect image of God.

Something made cannot be almighty God - everything made is by nature less than it’s creator.

Jesus is called Mighty God, Eternal Father (Isa 9:6)

Brian2, Isaiah speaks a PROPHECY. A prophecy is something that will occur in the future. The text also says it: ‘He WILL BE CALLED ‘mighty God’.

‘Eternal Father’ is also FUTURE. It points to the end of time when Jesus GIVES LIFE TO (remember the definition of ‘Father’?) those who he judges worthy for the kingdom his Father created for him.

The Father is greater than the Son but not better.

Wow, I had to pick this out from the other nonsense you wrote…. Brian2… You really are pagan…. And not even in touch with even pagan [reality]…., RESPECT for the Son in no way means EQUAL TO the Father… no! N! Brian2… you are going too far! Be warned again!!!

They are exactly alike in all ways. But of course a Father has authority over a Son.

The Father is SPIRIT… The creator and ruler of all things.

The Son is IMAGE of the Father. The Son INHERITS from the Father… Jesus, INHERITS what the Father CREATED [for him]… a PHYSICAL REALM. Jesus BECOMES RULER, KING, GOD, over the created realm.

The Father STILL REMAINS RULER over the SPIRITUAL, THE HEAVENLY REALM.

No! Brian2, they are not identical.

Jesus has a proven track record of being good. His righteousness is proven because He did not sin.

You are still purposely mistranslating the word ‘Good’. Jesus is TAUGHT by GOD, his Father. For jesus to claim to be ‘Good’ is to usurp the TEACHER who taught him:

• ‘Good? No, I’m not good… He that taught me what I showed you…it’s He who is GOOD!’

The fact that Jesus existed before John the Baptist has nothing to do with the trinity. I don't mind if your translation is correct.

You are the first trinitarian I have encountered who actually admitted to this truth…

But of course because you believe that Jesus did not exist until He was born as a man, it has a lot to do with what you believe.

No, Brian2. It’s the CORRECT interpretation backed by the additional integrity check and error correction which you even admitted is correct.

John 1:30 is a drop in the bucket of passages that show Jesus existed before He became a man.

John 1:30 is an injected verse. Study the verses either side of John 1:30 and you will see that John 1:30 is incongruous.

Also, it makes no sense at all. When the verse was injected by translators few people could or were allowed to read or study the scriptures. The mass majority simply had to resort to hearing what an authorised reader spoke from the books. I have been in that situation and heard one thing… then, after reading the same passage for myself, I found that the reader had not been truthful. The passage read very differently outside of specially trained fallacy speakers.

Heb 13: 8Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

It says Jesus is the same today, yesterday, and forever…. But that can hardly be true:

• Jesus was BORN by means of the Holy Spirit
• Jesus was TAUGHT by God
• Jesus was SET ASIDE (ANOINTED) by God for being a Priest, and a king
• Jesus was CRUCIFIED in a mortal body
• Jesus was RAISED in an immortal body
• Jesus was TAKEN UP to Heaven
• Jesus was SEATED next to God
• Jesus was GRANTED power and authority over all things FOR A PERIOD OF TIME
• Jesus was GRANTED the power to give life to believers
• Jesus was GRANTED the authority to judge mankind
• Jesus was GRANTED the power to rule over the created realm

‘I was DEAD, but NOW am alive forevermore’… no change there?

Why do you think that the Jews wanted to stone Him just because He said what you claim that He said.

The Jews wanted to stone Jesus because they were furious that this ‘young man, not yet fifty years old’ should claim that he was greater than the great patriarch, Abraham.

You do know that Abraham sinned by not trusting in God when confronted by the Egyptian king over his wife whom he called, ‘my sister’…, just as Moses didn’t trust in God when God told him to SPEAK to the rock: Moses, instead, struck the rock, to bring out water!

Abraham was, at that time, the most beloved of all people. God even called him ‘Friend’ (be careful not to misinterpret this term!!) for showing the great faith he showed otherwise in God. Abrahams reward was to be Father to the future ‘lamb of God’.

You are saying that the New Testament is not right when it tells us that Jesus has not changed it seems.
Heb 1:10 He also says,
“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”

Those verse are speaking about almighty God, the Father…. Already shown above.

 

[Brian2]

YHWH is almighty God, and Father.

Jesus is Son, MADE in the image of God… and REMAINED perfect image of God.

Something made cannot be almighty God - everything made is by nature less than it’s creator.

If all things were made through the Son, so why do you say that the Son was made.
The Son became a man and so the non created Son stepped into the creation because His body was created.

Brian2, Isaiah speaks a PROPHECY. A prophecy is something that will occur in the future. The text also says it: ‘He WILL BE CALLED ‘mighty God’.

So why don't you call Him "Mighty God"?

The Son is IMAGE of the Father. The Son INHERITS from the Father… Jesus, INHERITS what the Father CREATED [for him]… a PHYSICAL REALM. Jesus BECOMES RULER, KING, GOD, over the created realm.

The Father STILL REMAINS RULER over the SPIRITUAL, THE HEAVENLY REALM.

Col 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

So it says that the physical realm and spiritual realm were created for the Son.

Zech 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Ezek 37:23.... Then they will be My people, and I will be their God. 24My servant David will be king over them, and there will be one shepherd for all of them. They will follow My ordinances and keep and observe My statutes. 25They will live in the land that I gave to My servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They will live there forever with their children and grandchildren, and My servant David will be their prince forever.…
Psalm 2:8 Ask me,
and I will make the nations your inheritance,
the ends of the earth your possession.
Psalm 82:8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your inheritance.
John 5: 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,
Before the Lord, for He is coming,
Psalm 96:13 For He is coming to judge the earth.
He will judge the world in righteousness
And the peoples in His faithfulness.
1Thess 3:12And may the Lord cause you to increase and overflow with love for one another and for everyone else, just as our love for you overflows, 13so that He may establish your hearts in blamelessness and holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints. Amen.

You are still purposely mistranslating the word ‘Good’. Jesus is TAUGHT by GOD, his Father. For jesus to claim to be ‘Good’ is to usurp the TEACHER who taught him:

• ‘Good? No, I’m not good… He that taught me what I showed you…it’s He who is GOOD!’.

Jesus did not claim to be good, but we all know that Jesus is Good because He is exactly like His Father.

It says Jesus is the same today, yesterday, and forever…. But that can hardly be true:

Yes I know you have to deny the scriptures even though you say you aren't doing that, all you are doing is correcting them,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, so that they agree with what you say is the truth.

 

[Link]

Salam

There is this hadith:

لنا حالات مع الله هو فيها نحن، ونحن فيها هو، ومع ذلك هو هو ونحن نحن

الكلمات المكنونة: 1

"We have states with God in it he is us and us in it Him, and with that He is He and We are We." - The hidden words

This can be stating equality, but given context of Imams (a) and Quran saying God transcends creation and them included, we know that is not what they meant.

In my view it's clear there is only one God in Gospels and books before. The thing is you should adopt what Isa (a) says in a way that does not equate with him God just as we Shiites do not equate Imams (a) with God with saying such as the one I just quoted.

 

[Brian2]

Salam

There is this hadith:

لنا حالات مع الله هو فيها نحن، ونحن فيها هو، ومع ذلك هو هو ونحن نحن

الكلمات المكنونة: 1

"We have states with God in it he is us and us in it Him, and with that He is He and We are We." - The hidden words

This can be stating equality, but given context of Imams (a) and Quran saying God transcends creation and them included, we know that is not what they meant.

In my view it's clear there is only one God in Gospels and books before. The thing is you should adopt what Isa (a) says in a way that does not equate with him God just as we Shiites do not equate Imams (a) with God with saying such as the one I just quoted.

It's not as simple as adopting what Isa said in a way that does not equate with Him being God. There are saying in all the Bible that show Jesus is God. It might be OK for a Muslim to deny what the Bible says, but not so for a Christian, even if plenty of Christians do it these days with various Biblical teachings.

 

[Soapy]

It's not as simple as adopting what Isa said in a way that does not equate with Him being God. There are saying in all the Bible that show Jesus is God. It might be OK for a Muslim to deny what the Bible says, but not so for a Christian, even if plenty of Christians do it these days with various Biblical teachings.

The claimed sayings in the Bible showing Jesus is god is only what trinitarian calling themselves ‘Christian’ claim.

The very fact that the governing term is ‘Christian’ (‘Follower of Christ’) shows that ‘Christ’ is not God.

God TAUGHT the one who He anointed with His holy Spirit.

The term ‘Christ’ means ‘Anointed.

Anointed means ‘Set Aside [for Priesthood and/or Kingship]’

An apostle said:

• “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached, how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.“ (Acts 10:37-38)

Jesus said:

• “… what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?” (John 10:36)

You can see from these two verses (and there are more, obviously!) that God and Jesus are two completely different persons and entity types. Jesus at no time claims to be God and goes to pains to point out that he did not claim to be a God but only ‘the son of God’.

As I’ve pointed out before, ‘Son’, means ‘He who does the works of the Father’, and indeed, Jesus points this out to the Jews in this following verse:

• “Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.” (John 10:37)

But the worst part about trinitarian fallacy is that they continue to PROVE A TRINITY with only vain and openly false ‘evidence’ that Jesus is God…. forgetting (??!) of course that ‘TRINITY’ is Three!!