1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Gospel of Thomas

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by JRMcC, Jun 2, 2015.

  1. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    36,699
    Ratings:
    +10,001
    Religion:
    Judaism
    <Sigh...> Which in no way supports your assertion: "Thomas was unknown at the time and place of canonization, ..." </Sigh...>
     
  2. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    35,805
    Ratings:
    +1,857
    Unsubstantiated, here is one now


    On dating, Ron Cameron states (op. cit., p. 536):

    Determining a plausible date of composition is speculative and depends on a delicate weighing of critical judgments about the history of the transmission of the sayings-of-Jesus tradition and the process of the formation of the written gospel texts. The earliest possible date would be in the middle of the 1st century, when sayings collections such as the Synoptic Sayings Gospel Q first began to be compiled. The latest possible date would be toward the end of the 2d century, prior to the copying of P. Oxy. 1 and the first reference to the text by Hippolytus. If Gos. Thom. is a sayings collection based on an autonomous tradition, and not a gospel harmony conflated from the NT, then a date of composition in, say, the last decades of the 1st century would be more likely than a mid-to-late-2d-century date.
     
  3. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    35,805
    Ratings:
    +1,857
    Also if we point to an early date then the text would have had to have been widely known and circulated.

    There is also a good case material was plagiarized from Johns gospel.

    1. INTRODUCTION
     
  4. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    31,345
    Ratings:
    +3,578
    Religion:
    Christian/Shamanic
    Of course it's substantiated.
     
  5. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    31,345
    Ratings:
    +3,578
    Religion:
    Christian/Shamanic
    Not necessarily. It may have been peculiar to a relatively isolated community in Syria.
     
  6. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    36,699
    Ratings:
    +10,001
    Religion:
    Judaism
    @sojourner , you don't get to simply manufacture your facts. What is your evidence that "Thomas was unknown at the time and place of canonization, ..."?
     
  7. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,377
    Ratings:
    +1,373
    Religion:
    Spiritual
    I love that gospel. It's one of my all time favorites. If Jesus was who they say he was, this is how I see him really teaching.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,377
    Ratings:
    +1,373
    Religion:
    Spiritual
    Me as well jumi.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,377
    Ratings:
    +1,373
    Religion:
    Spiritual
    Which is your opinion. IMO, it's much more in keeping what Christ actually taught.
     
  10. Nada

    Nada #

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2014
    Messages:
    4,467
    Ratings:
    +971
    Religion:
    #
    Your opinion has been noted.Thanks.
     
  11. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    31,345
    Ratings:
    +3,578
    Religion:
    Christian/Shamanic
    I thought that was fairly common knowledge in the realm of biblical scholastics...
     
  12. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,377
    Ratings:
    +1,373
    Religion:
    Spiritual
    That was just a brief remark. I try to read the whole thread before really discussing the issue. The fact is, many scholars find this text to be much closer to the teachings of Christ than the NT, which is disjointed and contradictory, particularly when it comes to Paul who clearly didn't know Christ or a damn thing about what he taught. And most people try to be at least civil to other posters. One poster said that the NT was unquestionably 'divinely inspired by God' which is a load of crap. The twin councils chose what books they wanted to begin the Christian faith in terms of what most fit their agenda. God had nothing to do with it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  13. Nada

    Nada #

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2014
    Messages:
    4,467
    Ratings:
    +971
    Religion:
    #

    Ok.Thanks.....
     
  14. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    14,582
    Ratings:
    +1,339
    Gospel of Thomas

    The Church Councils canonized NT Bible unauthorized. Gospel of Thomas is no less reliable than other other gospels.
    Thomas certified after the event of Crucifixion that Jesus did not die on the Cross by putting his hands in the wounds of the body of Jesus and seeing and observing with his own eyes that Jesus was in the same body as Jesus was before the crucifixion:

    John 20:25
    So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe."
    John 20:27
    26After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, "Peace be with you."27Then He said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing."


    Regards
     
  15. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    14,582
    Ratings:
    +1,339
    I agree with you.

    Regards
     
  16. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    36,699
    Ratings:
    +10,001
    Religion:
    Judaism
    And what do you think now?
     
  17. Nada

    Nada #

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2014
    Messages:
    4,467
    Ratings:
    +971
    Religion:
    #
    From what I gather,Jesus ' body was not allowed to see corruption.Acts 2:31.This means his body was not allowed to decay in the grave.His body was consumed by God as an offering.Just like the Lamb that was slaughtered, and eaten, for the passover.This sacrificial lamb that foreshadowed the coming of Christ had to be consumed in fire before morning,if there was any left.

    Exodus 12:10
    Do not leave any of it until the next morning. Burn whatever is not eaten before morning.

    Jesus original body is gone.Jesus was resurrected to immortal status.A spirit.He materialized into many different bodies as had the fallen angels when on earth with the earthly women during the days of Noah.MAry did not recognize him at the Tomb at first.She thought he was the Gardner.

    • John 20:14, 15
      14 After saying this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.15 Jesus said to her: “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you looking for?” She, thinking it was the gardener, said to him: “Sir, if you have carried him off, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.”

      • Luke 24:15, 16
        15 Now as they were conversing and discussing these things, Jesus himself approached and began walking with them, 16 but their eyes were kept from recognizing him.

      • Luke 24:30, 31
        30 And as he was dining with them, he took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and began handing it to them. 31 At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; but he disappeared from them.


        John 21:4-7 4 However, just as day was breaking, Jesus stood on the beach, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus

    • 1 Peter 3:18
      18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.
     
  18. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    35,805
    Ratings:
    +1,857
    You have only replied in a apologetic manner, which has no historical credibility what so ever.

    Fine for faith, not so much for real history.
     
  19. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    14,582
    Ratings:
    +1,339
    It is not real history. It is not useful for faith. It is a blind-faith.
     
  20. Monk Of Reason

    Monk Of Reason ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Messages:
    6,509
    Ratings:
    +1,230
    Religion:
    Pragmatic
    But many others were. Do you deny this?

    That was the purpose. But it canonized THEIR version. That way there could be some sort of authority. There was a painstaking process in which they read several different scriptures to see which ones lined up best. I am sure there were some givens but the process was the same.

    Some may not. To my understanding the vast majority agree that he was gnostic. I am not a biblical scholar though.

    Possibly. But for the sake of clarity there were several cannons. There was a Jewish cannon that eventually came to light some years prior to the first attempted canonization of Christian texts. There were several attempted canonizations of the early Church. The bible that eventually made it was then changed again several times throughout history.

    For example protestant bibles and Catholic bibles are not the same. They have two different cannons. There are a few different cannons even within protestant denominations. And then of course you have Mormons and other sects like them that have added new books.
     
Loading...