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Gospel of Thomas and Women

Discussion in 'Gnosticism DIR' started by Pleroma, Nov 16, 2014.

  1. Pleroma

    Pleroma philalethist

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    Why should a female become male to enter the Kingdom of God?

    Compare this with Timothy where in says Women are saved by child bearing. How do we solve this problem? How are we to interpret these verses in the gnostic sense? What does Jesus mean when he says "I will guide her to make her male"? Is this got anything to do with Fall of Sophia? What are we missing?
     
  2. frangipani

    frangipani Member
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    In the Bible we have a case where the Jews asked Jesus about a married man who died and his brother taking on the widow as a wife, etc. They wondered to whom this woman would be wife to in the Kingdom of God seeing she was a wife to more than one man in this world. Jesus replied to them saying they erred because in the Kingdom of God there is neither male nor female nor marriage, all are the children of God.
    The reference to a woman being saved through childbirth is not a reference to procreation in itself, but a reference to the woman learning true love through the nature of having to care for the child. In most cases if you ask a woman why she became pregnant the answer is, 'Because I want a baby' , this is a selfish answer. Once the child is born, the woman has what she wanted, but ironically learns true love through having to care for the baby. So that is the meaning in Timothy. In the real sense though procreating will not save a woman. Nothing materialistic, nor from the material world will ever save anyone male or female. Salvation is the marriage of the Christ Spirit within us to our soul, the two becoming one. When Jesus said in Thomas' "I will guide her to make her male", he is not talking about the physical being and He is not talking about male and female as we know it. A better analogy other than male or female is positive and negative. The positive always exists (male) and is alive always, the negative always exists (female) but is not truly alive without the positive. When the two are brought together both live as one and there is life and wonder. The best example of this is electricity, an invisible power here in nature (as well as harnessed by mankind) the active wire ( positive) is always truly alive, but without the neutral wire (female) it cannot function properly. The active wire if you touch it will give you an electric shock. The negative wire will not. If both are working together both live as one and either will give you an electric shock, and together they are indeed powerful as we well know.
    I also, as a woman struggled with this seemingly contradictory issue, but it is the Wisdom of the Spirit of Christ that reveals the truth of the matter. We are not as we seem, we though the sum total of our thoughts and our thoughts are a combination of male (positive) and female (negative) working together to create the perfected human (Spiritual being) through the Spirit of Christ. No wonder Jesus said many times after speaking ,'Whoever has ears to hear should hear'.
     
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  3. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Hi.....


    Well, the Gospel of Thomas didn't make it into the chosen booklist for the NT, so there you have it, in a nutshell! :)

    .....and as already mentioned, there would not be gender in Heaven. :D
     
  4. Halcyon

    Halcyon Lord of the Badgers

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    It's code. In some gnostic systems male equates to spiritual whereas female equates to mundane/physical - probably because of the female's capacity to procreate (and thus trap more spiritual energy in physical bodies). You can see this in the myth of Barbelo, the feminine Hand of God, yet she is referred to as "thrice male" to emphasise her special divinity.
     
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  5. goatherd

    goatherd New Member

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    It is riddle:
    (114) Simon Peter said to him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life."
    Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."​


    Jer 30:6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
    One cannot intelligently teach any doctrine on men, women or marriage until they can make sense of this prophecy.

    The key is:

    1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
    Paul tells us that the woman represents those who are 'blind' or do not understand clearly. The old female donkey that led Jesus into Jerusalem represents the old prophets who did not see clearly. The young male donkey represented John the baptist who knew who Jesus was.

    The Sikhs have a saying that men must become virgins. This is not an endorsement of Sikhism but evidence that the riddle is not unknown outside of Christian circles.

    Those who do not understand (Mary, whose name means 'rebellious') will be taught by Jesus, so that they understand (become male). Those who understand (men) must become the bride of Christ (virgins), and they will become fruitful (pregnant).
     
  6. Treks

    Treks Well-Known Member

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    Um, what?
     
  7. goatherd

    goatherd New Member

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    Though Sikhism does not glorify virginity in the flesh as other religions, there is a source for the saying in the Holy Guru Granth Sahib (Part 19):
    "I decorate myself like a young virgin; but how can I enjoy pleasures, without my Husband Lord? My arm is tired, driving the crows. Says Kabeer, this is the way the story of my life ends."

    So as man dies he becomes a virgin in relation to the Husband Lord. This is similar imagery to the bride of Christ.
     
  8. Treks

    Treks Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I think I understand you better now. By 'virgin' you mean a young woman, not necessarily a non sexually active person.

    Throughout the Granth Sahib, imagery is used where the human soul is described as the 'soul bride' and the Creative Force is described as the 'Husband Lord' Often you will read about the soul bride decorating herself and her bed with treasures and luxury but the Husband Lord is not attracted by these. The soul bride who adorns herself with virtues like honesty and generosity is beautiful to the Husband Lord. And she hopes he will revel in her in her bed (not literally of course as it is a metaphor for the human yearning for the Divine).

    Example from page 110 of the Granth Sahib:
    In this world of her parents' home, she may come to know the Giver of peace,
    if she subdues her ego, and recognizes the Word of the Guru's Shabad.
    Her bed is beautiful; she ravishes and enjoys her Husband Lord forever. She is adorned with the Decorations of Truth. ||5||
    This is a merger Sikhs hope to achieve in this life. It is not something that they wait for after death.

    I'm not sure if that's like the Bride of Christ idea as I don't know much about that. But indeed, gender imagery has been used extensively to describe the difference between humans and "God".
     
    #8 Treks, Dec 12, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2014
  9. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    Since women can’t acquire a penis, it is obviously a metaphor. In order to understood what the author had meant, we have to understand what attributes are associated with males and females within the context of this school of thought.
     
  10. TheInfiniteLight

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    Jesus speaks this saying in order to satisfy his disciples hearing. There is complete equality within man and woman in the attainment of the life-giving truth. Its just that to his disciples, because of their culture and upbringing, did Jesus tell them that the woman must become man. Its their ignorance that Jesus speaks to.

    Earlier in the gospel of Thomas, Jesus says that the man must become woman; and the woman must become man; in so that they neither appear male or female but as a single one.
     
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