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Gorsuch enables the execution of Ledell Lee

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Jayhawker Soule, Apr 21, 2017.

  1. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    See With Gorsuch's Vote, Supreme Court Allows Arkansas to Execute Lendell Lee, including:

    Lee insisted upon his innocence from the day of his arrest through the night of his execution. He implored Arkansas to let him take a DNA test and compare the results to DNA collected at the scene of the murder he allegedly committed, but the state refused. Lee also presented evidence that his trial attorney provided ineffective assistance of counsel and that the presiding judge lacked neutrality: At the time, the judge was having an undisclosed affair with the assistant prosecutor. (They later married.) Lee’s counsel on appeal appeared in court so drunk that he slurred his words.

    Disgusting.
     
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  2. esmith

    esmith Well-Known Member

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    Playing lose and fast with the truth aren't you? I do believe that the vote was 5 to 4 to allow the execution to continue; therefore was it not 5 justices that allowed the execution to go through. In addition do you also realize that if Gorsuch was not on the Supreme Court that the vote would have been 4 to 4 which would have allowed the execution to still go forward.
    However I will give you a point on your obvious bias to attempt to blame now Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch for his execution. :facepalm:
     
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  3. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Living Dead Girl

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    Hopefully one day in the "land of the free" we'll realize that sinking to their level isn't really that great of thing, and is an action rooted in the lusts for vengeance, not desires for justice.
     
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  4. A Greased Scotsman

    A Greased Scotsman THIS is a sword. And it's bigger than yours!

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    Can you cite precedent of an execution happening on a tied vote in the past?
     
    #4 A Greased Scotsman, Apr 21, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  5. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014

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    One week into his job and he's already got blood on his hands!!
     
  6. suncowiam

    suncowiam Well-Known Member

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    You know, incarceration is another form of vengeance. Heck, even fines are a form of vengeance. Just not as severe.

    There's a fine line between justice and vengeance.

    We just choose to call what we prefer as justice as opposed to vengeance.

    The laws are what they are. If people don't want to face justice or vengeance or what ever you want to call it, then:
    Don't break the laws or change them first.

    I might consider some executions as being too harsh but if that person deliberately killed another person then they need to be willing to sacrifice their own life.

    I call that "justice."
     
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  7. suncowiam

    suncowiam Well-Known Member

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    I prefer a liberal judge myself over Gorsuch but I have to agree that the OP is confusing the context.

    The supreme court enabled this execution and not because of one man.
     
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  8. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    I am not Jay, nor am I familiar with this particular case.
    But I don't think Jay is blaming Gorsuch for the execution. That was a team project including hundreds of people.
    Rather Jay is pointing out shoddy opinions from the newest member of the SCOTUS, and how his lack of judgment resulted in the wrongful execution of Mr. Lendell.

    As a hard core pro-lifer I don't see this one event as a big deal. Rather, I see the concept of capital punishment (as committed in the USA) to be the problem. But none of that is the point, if what happened was Gorsuch joined the majority and provided the 5-4 ruling to go forward. And somebody didn't get justice and was killed.
    Tom
     
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  9. pcarl

    pcarl Active Member

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    Wouldn't a tie have sent it back to the lower court? Gorsuch replaced Scalia who had no problems with the death penalty.
     
  10. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    I don't know this case. But a tie upholds the lower court ruling, whatever that was.
    Tom
     
  11. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Living Dead Girl

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    Executions do not solve, amend, or ameliorate a murder. In this case, it appears someone who may have been innocent was put to death.
    That is not justice, but the reason we must abolish the death penalty. One innocent life wrongly destroyed is one too many.
     
  12. suncowiam

    suncowiam Well-Known Member

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    You always seem to miss my point about perspective. This and the previous discussion about human rights. It's relative.

    One can say the same for incarceration. Incarceration doesn't do it either... It won't take back the original life that was taken from a murder.

    Locking one life away can be said to be one too many in the prison cell.

    But there's really nothing objective here on the form of punishment. The only objective reasoning to consider is that criminals should be punished. The subjective phase is how they should be punished.

    Let's walk back through our steps and simply suggest that criminals simply don't do their crimes and they won't face punishment no matter how severe it is.
     
  13. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    What positive thing does execution do that incarceration doesn't? Because incarceration allows a chance for reform, consideration for what has been done, and continued community service. It also allows time to overturn unjust rulings, which can and have happened.

    I've never seen a push for execution that wasn't a call to emotion, over a call to reason.
     
  14. esmith

    esmith Well-Known Member

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    We are not talking about the pros and cons of the death penalty, the subject matter is the title of the post which was:
    Gorsuch enables the execution of Ledell Lee

    Which is incorrect.
    As I stated previously if he had not been there then it would have been a 4 to 4 tie and the ruling of a lower court would have prevailed hence Lee would have still been executed.
     
  15. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    But isn't the purpose of punishment the suppression of vendettas and feuds? As long as the public has confidence that the state will extract vengeance, public order is maintained. The state doesn't really care weather the convict is guilty or not. So long as the impression of state vengeance is maintained, public ire is assuaged and everyone's happy.
     
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  16. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    It is not incorrect. If Gorsuch had voted differently it would have been 5-4 against.
    Why is that so difficult to see?
    Tom
     
  17. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen uǝɥʇɐǝH ɹǝɥʇɐℲ

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    How does any of this change his lack of integrity?
     
  18. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Actually, that is a point that I failed to consider. I stand corrected.
     
  19. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    How many courts did the victim get to appeal to before having his or her life taken?
     
  20. suncowiam

    suncowiam Well-Known Member

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    I simply believe in an eye for an eye. Call it vengeance. Call it whatever you like. It's a spin on the golden rule which is my main philosophy. If I was ever in doubt about the ethics of a situation, I always turn to the golden rule. It hasn't failed me.

    If one is going to take a life, then they should have absolutely have no problem forfeiting their own.

    This is my reasoning. I wouldn't call it being emotional but if you think it is, that's fine.