Goodnight James Randi

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I consider Randi The God (he didn't believe in)'s agent, because so many wicked people try to fool and trick other humans and take advantage of them, whoever fights against falsehood and fakes is a hero.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Not even sure who Hydrick is.

Here is just a fraction of the reasons I believe Uri Geller had genuine abilities and all Randi had was trying to hide it all in smoke and snake oil.

I tested Uri myself under laboratory-controlled conditions and saw with my own eyes the bending of a key which was not touched by Geller at any time. There was a group of people present during the experiment who all witnessed the key bending in eleven seconds to an angle of thirty degrees. Afterwards we tested the key in a scientific laboratory using devices such as electron microscopes and X-rays and found that there was no chemical, manual or mechanical forces involved in the bending of the key.

Professor Helmut Hoffmann. Department of Electrical Engineering, Technical University of Vienna, Austria.



The Yale key at no time left our sight from the moment it was removed from the key ring and placed on the typewriter frame to the time when the splined end had bent upwards. Our attention was not distracted and the key was not altered in position, accidentally or otherwise. We were all looking carefully for magician’s tricks and there were none. Everything occurred exactly as I have described. As a result of this personally witnessed experiment in clear unequivocal conditions I am able to state with confidence my view that Mr Geller has genuine psychic capability.

Prof. Arthur Ellison. Emeritus Professor of Electrical Engineering, City University London – England.




The bends in metal objects (made by Geller) could not have been made by ordinary manual means.

Dr Albert Ducrocq. Telemetry Laboratory, Foch Hospital Suren, France.


And I can go on for pages. Just giving my honest opinion of what is going on. Randi is an obfuscator of the facts.

 

[George-ananda]

I might be more inclined to believe the explanations of a trained magician over an untrained scientist when trying to explain what was happening, no matter their other qualifications, particularly when we know tricksters have been in this field throughout history.

Are you aware that I posted these quotes earlier from magicians.

“”As a magician, I believe that the tests we did (with Geller) could not be duplicated in any way by a magician’s methods.”
Abb Dickson (Professional magician – U.S.A. and President of the International Brotherhood of Magicians 1997-98)


Uri bent a spoon for me, the first time he did it, I thought there must be a trick. The second time I was stunned, completely, completely stunned and amazed. It just bent in my hand. I’ve never seen anything like it. It takes a lot to impress me. Uri Geller is for real and anyone who doesn’t recognise that is either deluding himself, or is a very sad person.

David Blaine



“I immediately pick up the spoon from the lectern and place it into my pocket so that no one can steal it before I have the opportunity to auction it off. I notice that it is now at a perfect 90-degree angle – a different physical appearance than what I recall seeing when he placed it gently down on the lectern. I secretly shake my head because it is now different and I did not see him do one thing that was suspicious, with speed, without grace or charm. It was flawless. I have no idea what he did. I now have the spoon at my home. It is perfect. I have seen many spoons bent by so called experts. Uri is in a league of his own. The curvature of the bend is beautiful – not forced. I have said to many people that the curvature reminds me of a single line drawn by Matisse. It is a work of art. You can tell that it was created by a master. Quite wonderful. I’m a fan. Now, I would like to add a few further comments. Although I am not an expert in the paranormal, I am an expert in sleight of hand. I would stack up my knowledge and ability in sleight of hand against anyone in the world. I do not believe that Geller used sleight of hand to bend the spoon. (I have seen most of the spoon bending experts created by the magic community and their work is not very elegant when compared with Geller.”

David Ben Sleight of Hand Master

 

[blü 2]

My opinion on Randi is that he debunked when he could but would resort to lying/twisting/obfuscating when he couldn't. I saw his $1M Award as a publicity stunt as his organization was the final arbiter. He was a bad apple for serious skeptics.

The condition for applicants said that any test would be conducted in accordance with rules agreed between the parties in advance and impartially monitored.

If you have in mind a case where this wasn't done, to the disadvantage of the applicant, I'd like to hear about it so I can check it out.

 

[blü 2]

Randi showboated for the anti-paranormal crowd and his segment of society worshipped him. The bottom line is that the paranormal is real too and he attacked both the real and the hoaxes.

By the way I believe Uri Geller had real abilities. SRI testing and metal bending under controlled conditions are some of my reasons. Randi tried to blow a smoke screen in front of serious stuff and the anti-paranormal segment ate it up with relish.

I'm afraid I entirely disagree. Uri Geller was a fraud through and through, though as a matter of record it was the errors of early scientific observers that set him on the road to fame, and his sin was running with his opportunity ─ they didn't know what to look for, whereas a trained magician knows how such tricks are done, how such illusions are created.

I recall one demonstration on TV where a stage magician produced a thick and solid metal cylindrical rod, demonstrated its rigidity, then stroked it gently with one finger, causing it to bend in front of the camera. I was seriously impressed because seriously puzzled. He then showed how the illusion was created ─ the test rod had been switched for another rod identical but already bent. He presented this rod to the camera with the bend in the horizontal plane so it was not noticeable, and as he lightly stroked it, with the hand you weren't watching he slowly rotated it, bringing the bend into view as an apparent change to the rod. I learnt something from that.

 

[blü 2]

Did you see the quotes from magicians I quoted?

“”As a magician, I believe that the tests we did (with Geller) could not be duplicated in any way by a magician’s methods.”
Abb Dickson (Professional magician – U.S.A. and President of the International Brotherhood of Magicians 1997-98)


Uri bent a spoon for me, the first time he did it, I thought there must be a trick. The second time I was stunned, completely, completely stunned and amazed. It just bent in my hand. I’ve never seen anything like it. It takes a lot to impress me. Uri Geller is for real and anyone who doesn’t recognise that is either deluding himself, or is a very sad person.

David Blaine



“I immediately pick up the spoon from the lectern and place it into my pocket so that no one can steal it before I have the opportunity to auction it off. I notice that it is now at a perfect 90-degree angle – a different physical appearance than what I recall seeing when he placed it gently down on the lectern. I secretly shake my head because it is now different and I did not see him do one thing that was suspicious, with speed, without grace or charm. It was flawless. I have no idea what he did. I now have the spoon at my home. It is perfect. I have seen many spoons bent by so called experts. Uri is in a league of his own. The curvature of the bend is beautiful – not forced. I have said to many people that the curvature reminds me of a single line drawn by Matisse. It is a work of art. You can tell that it was created by a master. Quite wonderful. I’m a fan. Now, I would like to add a few further comments. Although I am not an expert in the paranormal, I am an expert in sleight of hand. I would stack up my knowledge and ability in sleight of hand against anyone in the world. I do not believe that Geller used sleight of hand to bend the spoon. (I have seen most of the spoon bending experts created by the magic community and their work is not very elegant when compared with Geller.”

David Ben Sleight of Hand Master

Doesn't make sense. If I am a talented basketball player I don't make 100% of my shots. If a metal bender even performs occasionally that impresses me.

So what do you say actually happened when Geller bent a spoon?

If you'll talk me through it step by step ─ and add at each step an objective test that will verify it ─ I'd be most appreciative.

 

[George-ananda]

The condition for applicants said that any test would be conducted in accordance with rules agreed between the parties in advance and impartially monitored.

If you have in mind a case where this wasn't done, to the disadvantage of the applicant, I'd like to hear about it so I can check it out.

I have heard many criticisms of the execution of the process. I’m on my phone now but anyone can do an internet search. I might be back to this later.

 

[George-ananda]

I'm afraid I entirely disagree. Uri Geller was a fraud through and through, though as a matter of record it was the errors of early scientific observers that set him on the road to fame, and his sin was running with his opportunity ─ they didn't know what to look for, whereas a trained magician knows how such tricks are done, how such illusions are created.

I recall one demonstration on TV where a stage magician produced a thick and solid metal cylindrical rod, demonstrated its rigidity, then stroked it gently with one finger, causing it to bend in front of the camera. I was seriously impressed because seriously puzzled. He then showed how the illusion was created ─ the test rod had been switched for another rod identical but already bent. He presented this rod to the camera with the bend in the horizontal plane so it was not noticeable, and as he lightly stroked it, with the hand you weren't watching he slowly rotated it, bringing the bend into view as an apparent change to the rod. I learnt something from that.

You show perfect digestion of the Randi Kool Aid spiel. There are both frauds and genuine abilities. When Randi exposes a fraud he does us all a service. Problem is that he implies all are frauds. Testing that I am impressed by has shown otherwise.

 

[George-ananda]

So what do you say actually happened when Geller bent a spoon?

If you'll talk me through it step by step ─ and add at each step an objective test that will verify it ─ I'd be most appreciative.

All I know is Geller bends the spoons using forces not currently understood by science. The bending effect detected by scientists such as the ones I quoted earlier occurs in a way that is different from all known bending methods.

My personal opinion is that it involves forces outside of our normal physical realm temporarily impacting our physical realm.

I hold all of so-called psychic and paranormal phenomena to be the domain of future science.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I would have indulged him with replacing the foam with something even more sensitive to getting blown around, like a large pile of small feathers.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

All I know is Geller bends the spoons using forces not currently understood by science. The bending effect detected by scientists such as the ones I quoted earlier occurs in a way that is different from all known bending methods.

My personal opinion is that it involves forces outside of our normal physical realm temporarily impacting our physical realm.

I hold all of so-called psychic and paranormal phenomena to be the domain of future science.

Randi has replicated everything Geller does without mystical forces.
3 Ways to Bend a Spoon - wikiHow
Easy Spoon Bending Magic Tricks Explained
There are many ways to bend a spoon. None of them psychic.

 

[George-ananda]

Randi has replicated everything Geller does without mystical forces.
3 Ways to Bend a Spoon - wikiHow
Easy Spoon Bending Magic Tricks Explained
There are many ways to bend a spoon. None of them psychic.

Of course spoons can be bent through trickery. Big Deal.

But try to match this:

I tested Uri myself under laboratory-controlled conditions and saw with my own eyes the bending of a key which was not touched by Geller at any time. There was a group of people present during the experiment who all witnessed the key bending in eleven seconds to an angle of thirty degrees. Afterwards we tested the key in a scientific laboratory using devices such as electron microscopes and X-rays and found that there was no chemical, manual or mechanical forces involved in the bending of the key.

Professor Helmut Hoffmann. Department of Electrical Engineering, Technical University of Vienna, Austria.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Of course spoons can be bent through trickery. Big Deal.

But try to match this:

I tested Uri myself under laboratory-controlled conditions and saw with my own eyes the bending of a key which was not touched by Geller at any time. There was a group of people present during the experiment who all witnessed the key bending in eleven seconds to an angle of thirty degrees. Afterwards we tested the key in a scientific laboratory using devices such as electron microscopes and X-rays and found that there was no chemical, manual or mechanical forces involved in the bending of the key.

Professor Helmut Hoffmann. Department of Electrical Engineering, Technical University of Vienna, Austria.

When an illusionist says the object is ordinary, that is often truthful. But that means there is deception all around.

And Geller fails, and the excuses flow like the Mississippi into the Gulf of Mexico.

 

[George-ananda]

When an illusionist says the object is ordinary, that is often truthful. But that means there is deception all around.

And Geller fails, and the excuses flow like the Mississippi into the Gulf of Mexico.

And you don’t even address the quotes I give. Enjoy your reality bubble.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And you don’t even address the quotes I give. Enjoy your reality bubble.

I linked to a video that shows you how the key is bent. All the quote affirmed is it's a real key. Of course it is. The deception usually isn't in what's real. It's what we don't see that distorts our perception of what is real. That's basically the whole idea behind magic. "What you see is what you get," as Criss Angel often says. And a lot of people think he's real because he has a good presentation and some unusual ways of presenting regular illusions (some of his card tricks are basic tricks mixed up some, with one trick being two or three of them running simultaneously and woven together as one illusion), and some that have proven much harder to figure out. But he's no more real than Geller.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And you don’t even address the quotes I give. Enjoy your reality bubble.

"It doesn't matter how smart you are, you can be fooled."
-James Randi.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And you don’t even address the quotes I give. Enjoy your reality bubble.

And to raise that, I could pass a psychic test with people picking cards. New deck, their own deck, custom deck, doesn't matter. I can read their mind.
But even the more drawn out trick (it's a very good one for asserting "psychic abilities"), there's nothing psychic going on. A lot of it is just math play.
We are very bad at taking in what we perceive. This is just basic human psychology. Psychics, illusionists, magicians, they all fully exploit this fact. Don't trust your eyes because they can deceive. Such people build a career based on that bit of wisdom.

 

[blü 2]

You show perfect digestion of the Randi Kool Aid spiel. There are both frauds and genuine abilities. When Randi exposes a fraud he does us all a service. Problem is that he implies all are frauds. Testing that I am impressed by has shown otherwise.

There is not one single authenticated example of paranormal powers.

Not one.

All I know is Geller bends the spoons using forces not currently understood by science. The bending effect detected by scientists such as the ones I quoted earlier occurs in a way that is different from all known bending methods.

To bend a line from the late great Martin Gardner to my purposes, evidence of paranormal powers is overwhelming evidence of error or (as with Geller and the people Randi dealt with) fraud.

My personal opinion is that it involves forces outside of our normal physical realm temporarily impacting our physical realm.

I hold all of so-called psychic and paranormal phenomena to be the domain of future science.

Trouble is, as I said, we have not a single authenticated instance of such a thing.

 

[George-ananda]

There is not one single authenticated example of paranormal powers.

Not one.
To bend a line from the late great Martin Gardner to my purposes, evidence of paranormal powers is overwhelming evidence of error or (as with Geller and the people Randi dealt with) fraud.
Trouble is, as I said, we have not a single authenticated instance of such a thing.

Oh, I see. Enjoy your world of your own insistence but with the quotes I presented I have to believe you are in science denial on this subject when you speak with such false bravado.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Are you aware that I posted these quotes earlier from magicians.

“”As a magician, I believe that the tests we did (with Geller) could not be duplicated in any way by a magician’s methods.”
Abb Dickson (Professional magician – U.S.A. and President of the International Brotherhood of Magicians 1997-98)


Uri bent a spoon for me, the first time he did it, I thought there must be a trick. The second time I was stunned, completely, completely stunned and amazed. It just bent in my hand. I’ve never seen anything like it. It takes a lot to impress me. Uri Geller is for real and anyone who doesn’t recognise that is either deluding himself, or is a very sad person.

David Blaine



“I immediately pick up the spoon from the lectern and place it into my pocket so that no one can steal it before I have the opportunity to auction it off. I notice that it is now at a perfect 90-degree angle – a different physical appearance than what I recall seeing when he placed it gently down on the lectern. I secretly shake my head because it is now different and I did not see him do one thing that was suspicious, with speed, without grace or charm. It was flawless. I have no idea what he did. I now have the spoon at my home. It is perfect. I have seen many spoons bent by so called experts. Uri is in a league of his own. The curvature of the bend is beautiful – not forced. I have said to many people that the curvature reminds me of a single line drawn by Matisse. It is a work of art. You can tell that it was created by a master. Quite wonderful. I’m a fan. Now, I would like to add a few further comments. Although I am not an expert in the paranormal, I am an expert in sleight of hand. I would stack up my knowledge and ability in sleight of hand against anyone in the world. I do not believe that Geller used sleight of hand to bend the spoon. (I have seen most of the spoon bending experts created by the magic community and their work is not very elegant when compared with Geller.”

David Ben Sleight of Hand Master

Yes. And I posted the list (in another thread) of those asking for demonstrations - where money was offered - and where none has been taken. Why?