Goodnight James Randi

[George-ananda]

He showed us though it isn't real. That was basically his life's work.
And he wasn't showboating. He was smart, confident, assertive, and far more intelligent than what many charlatans and his doubters give him credit for. The ones showboating are the frauds who use simple deception and trickery to deceive people. All Randi did was say "demonstrate your abilities in a controlled environment."
We can also look at the USA and USSR, who both extensively and studied the paranormal. They quit those programs because it was consistently and repeatedly found--just as Randi was showing us--there's nothing there.

Actually its just the opposite.

But your right. I had Uri confused with Hydrick.

Not even sure who Hydrick is.

Here is just a fraction of the reasons I believe Uri Geller had genuine abilities and all Randi had was trying to hide it all in smoke and snake oil.

I tested Uri myself under laboratory-controlled conditions and saw with my own eyes the bending of a key which was not touched by Geller at any time. There was a group of people present during the experiment who all witnessed the key bending in eleven seconds to an angle of thirty degrees. Afterwards we tested the key in a scientific laboratory using devices such as electron microscopes and X-rays and found that there was no chemical, manual or mechanical forces involved in the bending of the key.

Professor Helmut Hoffmann. Department of Electrical Engineering, Technical University of Vienna, Austria.



The Yale key at no time left our sight from the moment it was removed from the key ring and placed on the typewriter frame to the time when the splined end had bent upwards. Our attention was not distracted and the key was not altered in position, accidentally or otherwise. We were all looking carefully for magician’s tricks and there were none. Everything occurred exactly as I have described. As a result of this personally witnessed experiment in clear unequivocal conditions I am able to state with confidence my view that Mr Geller has genuine psychic capability.

Prof. Arthur Ellison. Emeritus Professor of Electrical Engineering, City University London – England.




The bends in metal objects (made by Geller) could not have been made by ordinary manual means.

Dr Albert Ducrocq. Telemetry Laboratory, Foch Hospital Suren, France.


And I can go on for pages. Just giving my honest opinion of what is going on. Randi is an obfuscator of the facts.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Here is just a fraction of the reasons I believe Uri Geller had genuine abilities and all Randi had was trying to hide it all in smoke and snake oil.

Randi literally showed the courts where a cereal box teaches the spoon bending trick. It's what had one of the cases Geller brought against Randi dismissed. Randi said you could learn the trick reading the back of cereal box, Geller sued, Randi produced said evidence, case dismissed.
The Tonight Show was another great example. Johnny Carson made sure his crew kept Geller's crew away from the set up to avoid information being leaked. Predictably, under a random and controlled environment Geller couldn't perform. The excuses spewed forth like lava from a volcanic eruption.

 

[George-ananda]

Randi literally showed the courts where a cereal box teaches the spoon bending trick. It's what had one of the cases Geller brought against Randi dismissed. Randi said you could learn the trick reading the back of cereal box, Geller sued, Randi produced said evidence, case dismissed.
The Tonight Show was another great example. Johnny Carson made sure his crew kept Geller's crew away from the set up to avoid information being leaked. Predictably, under a random and controlled environment Geller couldn't perform. The excuses spewed forth like lava from a volcanic eruption.

So do you actually think the scientists are being fooled by a cereal box taught bending trick?

And Geller never claimed to have his special abilities 100% of the time so some lack of performance on a TV program here or there is to be expected if he is legitimate.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And Geller never claimed to have his special abilities 100% of the time so some lack of performance on a TV program here or there is to be expected if he is legitimate.

Uhm, no. He consistently failed to perform under controlled circumstances. Thats what we expect of a fraud, that they can only succeed when they are in control. His "I dont have it 100% of the time," thats a part of his excuses crawling forth like maggots from rotten meat.

So do you actually think the scientists are being fooled by a cereal box taught bending trick?

Anyone who believes in spoon bending as a mystical, supernatural, psychic thing is being fooled by a parlor trick that has been printed in the back of a cereal box.

 

[George-ananda]

Anyone who believes in spoon bending as a mystical, supernatural, psychic thing is being fooled by a parlor trick that has been printed in the back of a cereal box.

So how do you explain the quotes from scientists I gave above? You skipped that question. And there are many more (pages). I'll take that scientific evidence over a bunch of determined Randi fans saying 'no way and that's that'.

 

[Polymath257]

So do you actually think the scientists are being fooled by a cereal box taught bending trick?

Yes. Most scientists are not trained in magic tricks and so are often just as mystified by sleight of hand as other people. That is why it is far better to have an illusionist investigate these things: they are trained to know how people can be fooled.

And Geller never claimed to have his special abilities 100% of the time so some lack of performance on a TV program here or there is to be expected if he is legitimate.

Any evidence he had special abilities at *any* time?

Say, when watched by people trained to detect sleights of hand?

 

[George-ananda]

Yes. Most scientists are not trained in magic tricks and so are often just as mystified by sleight of hand as other people. That is why it is far better to have an illusionist investigate these things: they are trained to know how people can be fooled.



Any evidence he had special abilities at *any* time?

Say, when watched by people trained to detect sleights of hand?

“”As a magician, I believe that the tests we did (with Geller) could not be duplicated in any way by a magician’s methods.”
Abb Dickson (Professional magician – U.S.A. and President of the International Brotherhood of Magicians 1997-98)


Uri bent a spoon for me, the first time he did it, I thought there must be a trick. The second time I was stunned, completely, completely stunned and amazed. It just bent in my hand. I’ve never seen anything like it. It takes a lot to impress me. Uri Geller is for real and anyone who doesn’t recognise that is either deluding himself, or is a very sad person.

David Blaine



“I immediately pick up the spoon from the lectern and place it into my pocket so that no one can steal it before I have the opportunity to auction it off. I notice that it is now at a perfect 90-degree angle – a different physical appearance than what I recall seeing when he placed it gently down on the lectern. I secretly shake my head because it is now different and I did not see him do one thing that was suspicious, with speed, without grace or charm. It was flawless. I have no idea what he did. I now have the spoon at my home. It is perfect. I have seen many spoons bent by so called experts. Uri is in a league of his own. The curvature of the bend is beautiful – not forced. I have said to many people that the curvature reminds me of a single line drawn by Matisse. It is a work of art. You can tell that it was created by a master. Quite wonderful. I’m a fan. Now, I would like to add a few further comments. Although I am not an expert in the paranormal, I am an expert in sleight of hand. I would stack up my knowledge and ability in sleight of hand against anyone in the world. I do not believe that Geller used sleight of hand to bend the spoon. (I have seen most of the spoon bending experts created by the magic community and their work is not very elegant when compared with Geller.”

David Ben Sleight of Hand Master

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So do you actually think the scientists are being fooled by a cereal box taught bending trick?

Yup. There is no other explanation. They weren't as thorough as they should be, they didn't have the knowledge of illusion Randi did, and they were deceived by cheap parlor tricks.

And Geller never claimed to have his special abilities 100% of the time so some lack of performance on a TV program here or there is to be expected if he is legitimate.

That's a total cop out. You can or you can't. You don't claim to be able to play guitar, fail when tested, and get to claim you can't do it "100% of the time." If someone is real you expect results all the time, under most circumstances. Geller consistently failed with controlled setups. If he's not allowed to be apart of the setup, if his people can't touch it, he can't perform. Then he whines and cries and moans and comes with a pathetic excuse of him not having these powers all the time. They just fade away, as they do with all of these charlatans, when put to the test. And not being able to perform under the test is proof of a fraud, not real ability. If someone says they are a great mathematician and they fail an algebra 1 test, they don't know algebra. It's not this nonsense of "I can't do it 100% of the time."

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Pretty sure I've done the bending spoon thing as well. I don't perceive it as a trick, just something people can do. Maybe its just some people. Like some people can fart on command or something, I don't think I can, I might blow something.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Yup. There is no other explanation. They weren't as thorough as they should be, they didn't have the knowledge of illusion Randi did, and they were deceived by cheap parlor tricks.

That's a total cop out. You can or you can't. You don't claim to be able to play guitar, fail when tested, and get to claim you can't do it "100% of the time." If someone is real you expect results all the time, under most circumstances. Geller consistently failed with controlled setups. If he's not allowed to be apart of the setup, if his people can't touch it, he can't perform. Then he whines and cries and moans and comes with a pathetic excuse of him not having these powers all the time. They just fade away, as they do with all of these charlatans, when put to the test. And not being able to perform under the test is proof of a fraud, not real ability. If someone says they are a great mathematician and they fail an algebra 1 test, they don't know algebra. It's not this nonsense of "I can't do it 100% of the time."

I can't do anything at all 100% of the time. Sometimes I'm just trying to pick up something and it slips right out of my hand.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I can't do anything at all 100% of the time. Sometimes I'm just trying to pick up something and it slips right out of my hand.

It's the idea that someone says "look at me! look what I can do!" and when someone else says "well, let me set up so you have a truly random and controlled environment to demonstrate your abilities in," and when the person fails to perform it's bull**** excuse that "oh, I can't always perform." No, they can't perform at all. Anyone who knew about stage and illusion, he could not perform for. He failed in front a national audience because Johnny Carson was on to him. So the excuses flew out like severe chronic diarrhea.
This is a spoon bent by Randi, someone who did not accept supernatural forces where behind this.

That alone strongly demonstrates magic is not involved. Spiritual forces are not involved. Nothing occult. Nothing psychic. Penn and Teller are the same, skeptics to the core and they too bend spoons as a part of their shows and demonstrations that none of it is real.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Here's a link to a study (free) on the ability of verbal suggestion alone to make it appear as if a spoon is bending.
www.richardwiseman.com/resources/BJP-key.pdf

 

[George-ananda]

Yup. There is no other explanation. They weren't as thorough as they should be, they didn't have the knowledge of illusion Randi did, and they were deceived by cheap parlor tricks.

Did you see the quotes from magicians I quoted?

“”As a magician, I believe that the tests we did (with Geller) could not be duplicated in any way by a magician’s methods.”
Abb Dickson (Professional magician – U.S.A. and President of the International Brotherhood of Magicians 1997-98)


Uri bent a spoon for me, the first time he did it, I thought there must be a trick. The second time I was stunned, completely, completely stunned and amazed. It just bent in my hand. I’ve never seen anything like it. It takes a lot to impress me. Uri Geller is for real and anyone who doesn’t recognise that is either deluding himself, or is a very sad person.

David Blaine



“I immediately pick up the spoon from the lectern and place it into my pocket so that no one can steal it before I have the opportunity to auction it off. I notice that it is now at a perfect 90-degree angle – a different physical appearance than what I recall seeing when he placed it gently down on the lectern. I secretly shake my head because it is now different and I did not see him do one thing that was suspicious, with speed, without grace or charm. It was flawless. I have no idea what he did. I now have the spoon at my home. It is perfect. I have seen many spoons bent by so called experts. Uri is in a league of his own. The curvature of the bend is beautiful – not forced. I have said to many people that the curvature reminds me of a single line drawn by Matisse. It is a work of art. You can tell that it was created by a master. Quite wonderful. I’m a fan. Now, I would like to add a few further comments. Although I am not an expert in the paranormal, I am an expert in sleight of hand. I would stack up my knowledge and ability in sleight of hand against anyone in the world. I do not believe that Geller used sleight of hand to bend the spoon. (I have seen most of the spoon bending experts created by the magic community and their work is not very elegant when compared with Geller.”

David Ben Sleight of Hand Master

That's a total cop out. You can or you can't. You don't claim to be able to play guitar, fail when tested, and get to claim you can't do it "100% of the time." If someone is real you expect results all the time, under most circumstances. Geller consistently failed with controlled setups. If he's not allowed to be apart of the setup, if his people can't touch it, he can't perform. Then he whines and cries and moans and comes with a pathetic excuse of him not having these powers all the time. They just fade away, as they do with all of these charlatans, when put to the test. And not being able to perform under the test is proof of a fraud, not real ability. If someone says they are a great mathematician and they fail an algebra 1 test, they don't know algebra. It's not this nonsense of "I can't do it 100% of the time."

Doesn't make sense. If I am a talented basketball player I don't make 100% of my shots. If a metal bender even performs occasionally that impresses me.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

when I did spoon bending stuff, I thought it was just the heat from my hand or something, and my moving the parts at certain places that were allowing it to happen with ease. I did a few different types I think, I did one where I just hold the fork and it sort of bends or melts seemingly in one direction or the other, and others where I bend the points. Its totally way less impressive because you're just holding it or moving it with your hand and doing it with your strength or heat or physics directly. More impressive than that have been incidents where I seemingly make the wind blow harder and harder and stuff like that. I think Uri is actually a performance artist, but maybe there are some people who are doing tricks somehow without even realizing they are doing the tricks, but I don't think they ever come on tv probably, and its totally annoying when (and if) people totally know they are tricking people or doing some trick, and are trying to pretend or claim that they are not and are for real, basically deception is totally hateful!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

“”As a magician, I believe that the tests we did (with Geller) could not be duplicated in any way by a magician’s methods.”
Abb Dickson (Professional magician – U.S.A. and President of the International Brotherhood of Magicians 1997-98)

And yet his stunts have been thoroughly explained and duplicated using magicians methods. And some not even that. His wrist watch fix, anyone random bloke can stumble upon that purely by accident. His predictions never work when in a controlled environment. His spoon bending is a child's trick.

David Blaine

This bloke of a lame magician mostly and largely only does "out of the box" tricks that come on the instruction manual of his props (yes, I know enough about magic to have caught on to this) (Quarter bite, Raven, even his levitation tricks are very basic ones like the Balducci levitation) It's no wonder he could be easily tricked by a fraud. He himself is a fraud who mostly impresses people who don't know what's going on. But have any inkling or clue about basic magic tricks and Blaine is reduced to a mediocre presentation of his illusions. He was fooled by a better showman.

Doesn't make sense. If I am a talented basketball player I don't make 100% of my shots.

No, but a talented basketball player can perform. They show us they are talented. Game after game, regardless of where, the skills will shine.
With Geller, he only shines when he has home court advantage and he (or his crew) are involved with the setup. Take this completely out of the equation, make it random, make it controlled (as in, he and no one in his crew has knowledge of the setup), and Geller fails every time.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

when I did spoon bending stuff, I thought it was just the heat from my hand or something,

That can be a part of it, though there are actually at least a few methods to spoon bending.

I think Uri is actually a performance artist

He is. Which is how his stunts are able to be performed by skeptics like Randi or Penn Jillette. Obviously if it required this mentalism as claimed by Geller these skeptics would not be able to perform these tricks while explaining the physics and whats going on to the audience.

 

[George-ananda]

And yet his stunts have been thoroughly explained and duplicated using magicians methods. And some not even that. His wrist watch fix, anyone random bloke can stumble upon that purely by accident. His predictions never work when in a controlled environment. His spoon bending is a child's trick.

This bloke of a lame magician mostly and largely only does "out of the box" tricks that come on the instruction manual of his props (yes, I know enough about magic to have caught on to this) (Quarter bite, Raven, even his levitation tricks are very basic ones like the Balducci levitation) It's no wonder he could be easily tricked by a fraud. He himself is a fraud who mostly impresses people who don't know what's going on. But have any inkling or clue about basic magic tricks and Blaine is reduced to a mediocre presentation of his illusions. He was fooled by a better showman.

No, but a talented basketball player can perform. They show us they are talented. Game after game, regardless of where, the skills will shine.
With Geller, he only shines when he has home court advantage and he (or his crew) are involved with the setup. Take this completely out of the equation, make it random, make it controlled (as in, he and no one in his crew has knowledge of the setup), and Geller fails every time.

OK, well I suppose I will listen to slight of hand and magician experts over obvious haters.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

OK, well I suppose I will listen to slight of hand and magician experts over obvious haters.

He wasn't a hater. He explain everything Geller could do. Geller is the hater, as he attempted to sue Randi multiple times. And because Geller's claims were bunk Randi paid not one cent to to Geller. Turns out even if a court of law Geller is wrong, Randi is right. And where someone has said they can't explain his means, someone else like Randi said "this is how it's done."
I forget who said it, but magic is only what science has yet to explain.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Just because I love it when a fraud gets torn down:
The Truth About Uri Geller - Wikipedia

In 1991 Geller filed a $15 million lawsuit against Randi and the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP) over slander concerning Randi's statements that Geller had "tricked even reputable scientists" with tricks that "are the kind that used to be on the back of cereal boxes when I was a kid".[1] The court dismissed the case and Geller had to eventually settle the case at a cost of $120,000.[1]

In February 1992, Geller sued Randi, Prometheus and local book distributors in London, England for libel concerning The Magic of Uri Geller.[2] The lawsuit centered on the sentence: "He began his career as a stage magician in Israel where he was once arrested for claiming his feats were performed with psychic power", since Geller had not been arrested but merely sued. The publisher issued an erratum that changed the phrase "he was once arrested" to "he was once sued".[2] Randi commented in 1993 that "My position is that I made an unintended factual error in misinterpreting the words 'brought to court' and 'guilty' as 'arrested,' and that this was done without malice or reckless disregard for the truth."[2] Geller lost this case as well and had to pay Randi's legal fees.[2]

In April 1992 Geller sued Prometheus Books for $4 million alleging libel in two other books.[3] This suit was thrown out in 1994 and the judge ordered Geller to pay $20,272.89 in legal fees.[3]

After Geller's three lawsuits, Randi said he "never paid even one dollar or even one cent to anyone who ever sued me, and certainly not to Geller".[4]

Notice a pattern? Geller sues, but he's the one who ends up settling and paying because he's full of crap.
And here is a very damning statement for Geller:

"Randi puts the boot into the charismatic Uri. His scorn is withering; even if you think he leans too far towards skepticism (I don't), it's impressive and damning that Randi can duplicate any and all of Geller's paltry tricks without need to claim astral powers – while Geller's power mysteriously desert him when Randi or other professional magicians happen to be watching."

Notice that "other professional magicians" part? That's not very good for Geller that he can't bull**** a high lord of bull****.

 

[Mock Turtle]

OK, well I suppose I will listen to slight of hand and magician experts over obvious haters.

I might be more inclined to believe the explanations of a trained magician over an untrained scientist when trying to explain what was happening, no matter their other qualifications, particularly when we know tricksters have been in this field throughout history.