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Goodbye, Obama!

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
the statement was that
it was six inches, not half a foot. This is the best the RW has to offer? That's it? It's OK with Shrub, but not OK with Obama? Moreover, this is BATF program... I doubt that higher ups had any input, for that matter. But you've drunk the Koolaid so reason has no impact on you. To quote your hero: Sad.

FWIW, a rose by any other name still has thorns. :D
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
The statement was that the ATF program called Fast & Furious was commenced under the Obama. It was not a statement that Fast & Furious was an off-shoot of another program.
It's the same program, doesn't matter. It wasn't Obama that started this 'program' and 'idea'.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Absolutely false, plus he's been far more popular that "W".

Is that why unemployment is less than half of what it was, why the stock-market is almost triple what it was, why we've been out of the Great Recession while most Europeans are still struggling, etc?

Which election? In Israel? And exactly where did you get this "information" from?

It seems you've been very busy inventing your own "reality".
Well, some facts, most created jobs have been part time, with no benefits. Jobs numbers do not count the millions of unemployed who have run out of unemployment benefits and stopped looking for work. The stock market is not a very accurate measuring stick for the economy. It rises and falls based upon emotion, and it has taken off since the election. The true measure of the economy is the GDP, which is at 1 1/2 percent, pitiful, the worst recovery from a recession in history. You don't seem to keep track of what is going on very well. Israel published a report, NEVER denied by the Obama administration, that named by name a number of democrat political hacks who were sent to Israel to assist the opposition to the Prime Minister. Europe is still struggling because their nanny state and choking regulation surpasses what obama wanted and was stopped from doing
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Citation please. Show us some proof other than Brietbart or similar RW clickbaitin' site. Just because you want it to be true, doesn't make it so.

Possibly. The percentages are high. You didn't have to be a bigot to vote for Komrade Trumpsky, but boy did it help.

Citation please... on the enabling. We know Russia is an evil player and that they consider Komrade Trumpsky one of their best assets (according to Komrade Trumpsky). Why is it that you voted for a Kremlin stooge, again???

Citation needed. Obama inherited a huge mess from Shrub. The progress has been slow, but then the hole was stupid deep. Komrade Trumpsky will put us back in the hole. Ditto on the rest of your spurious aspersions.

You mean names like "Ilk" and "snowflake"??? That's almost as phunni as a fake billionaire with a fake tan calling CNN fake news. Really, you should listen to your own sermon before asking others to follow in your path, cupcake. :D

Was was that you said about name calling? I'm rubber, you're glue and all that... You're just getting sillier and sillier the more apoplectic you get.

Now, go bother someone else. This sham of an argument you present is as circular as it is pathetic. To quote your hero: Sad.
You are a master of speculation. I never supported Trump, and believe/ed he was the worst candidate my party could have nominated. Thanks to open primaries, your fellow democrats ensured he was nominated. Well, a citation is easy, obama did little when Russia invaded Ukraine, and annexed the Crimea. obama did not respond but with idle words when Russia established permanent bases and a permanent presence in Syria. He did nothing when Russia supplied very sophisticated anti air defense systems to Iran. The Balkan states are terrified of Russia and have been begging obama for support. In the last year he has grudgingly sent small numbers of US forces for their defense. I didn't call you any names, if you feel you were called a name, it is because you adopted it, not because I identified you as anything. You don't like ilk, would cohorts, fellow travelers, or just buddies work better for you ? You are wasting your time with comments about Trump, I don't care for him either. So your words have literally NO effect on me. You are right, it is sad, you are simply not perceptive enough to understand what you read. Further, you assume because you want your assumptions to be true, but a responsible reading of what was written would prove your assumptions as laughable.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
You are a master of speculation.
It's not hard to smell RW BS. No speculation required.
I never supported Trump, and believe/ed he was the worst candidate my party could have nominated.
We agree that he's the worst candidate by any party ever. Yet he's president.
your fellow democrats ensured
Talk about deflection. He's YOUR candidate, not mine. Don't blame me for your mistake. That's dishonorable.
Well, a citation is easy, obama did little when Russia invaded Ukraine, and annexed the Crimea.
That's your citation? That's it? Groundless speculation is not a citation. You might want to look it up on Wikipedia. Why is it up to us to start a war with Russia?
I didn't call you any names, i
Please. Our whole discussion started with your pompous use of "ilk" and then you referred to me directly as snowflake. Show some integrity here, please. Own up to what you wrote.
you are simply not perceptive enough to understand
Ah, when names don't work you devolve straight to condescension. But really, is that the best you can do? It's obvious you're not creative enough to make a point stick. I'm guessing you don't belong to Mensa with such petulant schlock.
Further, you assume because you want your assumptions to be true,
Do you ever "responsibly" proof read your schlock? How circular can you get? I assume because I want to assume? How droll. Guess what? I responded because... wait for it... wait for it... I wanted to respond! Woot! :D :D :D OK, OK how about this one... I laughed out loud, waking my cat because... wait for it... wait for it... I wanted to laugh out loud at your tripe. News flash: I don't think this is going to help your Mensa application. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I thought you should know. Circular logic is never good because it's "circular". See what I did there?

I assume because I want to assume! Bwahahahaha! I might have to use that in my sig line.

In other news, I ate because I wanted to eat, I breathed because I wanted to breathe and I watched the morning news because... wait for it... wait for it... I wanted to! :D :D :D Now my cheeks are wet with tears of mirth. Thanks for a great start to the day.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Well, some facts, most created jobs have been part time, with no benefits. Jobs numbers do not count the millions of unemployed who have run out of unemployment benefits and stopped looking for work. The stock market is not a very accurate measuring stick for the economy. It rises and falls based upon emotion, and it has taken off since the election. The true measure of the economy is the GDP, which is at 1 1/2 percent, pitiful, the worst recovery from a recession in history. You don't seem to keep track of what is going on very well. Israel published a report, NEVER denied by the Obama administration, that named by name a number of democrat political hacks who were sent to Israel to assist the opposition to the Prime Minister. Europe is still struggling because their nanny state and choking regulation surpasses what obama wanted and was stopped from doing
Again, you are simply fabricating stories that one could easily dispel with facts if anyone here has the interest. I simply do not have the time nor the interest in going any further with you on this except for one item that you mention above that I'll deal with on a separate post.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
You don't seem to keep track of what is going on very well. Israel published a report, NEVER denied by the Obama administration, that named by name a number of democrat political hacks who were sent to Israel to assist the opposition to the Prime Minister.
First of all, I've dealt enough with your insults lately, and is the above is the best you can do?

Secondly, you might want to read this from Politifact: Blog claims U.S. funded anti-Netanyahu election effort in Israel

Thirdly, it's no secret that Obama and Netanyahu are not exactly friends, but it goes well beyond that. On a foreign policy issue, Boehner brought in Netanyahu to speak to Congress on the Iranian issue, thus breaking our long-standing precedent of not allowing foreign spokespeople to interfere with a pending foreign policy issue soon to be voted on.

Fourthly, Netanyahu actually supported Romney against Obama in the 2012 election, so doncha think that's maybe "opposition" to our leader?

As a Jew who has spent time in Israel and supports them, including with donations, what Netanyahu did was deplorable, imo.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
First of all, I've dealt enough with your insults lately, and is the above is the best you can do?

Secondly, you might want to read this from Politifact: Blog claims U.S. funded anti-Netanyahu election effort in Israel

Thirdly, it's no secret that Obama and Netanyahu are not exactly friends, but it goes well beyond that. On a foreign policy issue, Boehner brought in Netanyahu to speak to Congress on the Iranian issue, thus breaking our long-standing precedent of not allowing foreign spokespeople to interfere with a pending foreign policy issue soon to be voted on.

Fourthly, Netanyahu actually supported Romney against Obama in the 2012 election, so doncha think that's maybe "opposition" to our leader?

As a Jew who has spent time in Israel and supports them, including with donations, what Netanyahu did was deplorable, imo.
No insult cupcake, just a statement of fact. The Congress has a right to invite whomever they choose to speak on whatever topicthey choose, especially when the President signs a treaty without the approval of Congress, required by the Constitution. Since obama, precedent means nothing. His precedents include refusing to enforce the law that applies to millions of people,
Again, you are simply fabricating stories that one could easily dispel with facts if anyone here has the interest. I simply do not have the time nor the interest in going any further with you on this except for one item that you mention above that I'll deal with on a separate post.
One thing I have learned about you, you NEVER address facts, you never provide facts. I think it is because you are just plain lazy. In the past, you have pontificated (erroneously) on an issue and I have provided fact citations to prove you wrong, in at least one case I gave you the location where you might find information to refute my argument, you just drifted away. Your clearly established style is to blindly spout nothings, get hurt because your factual failings are pointed out , then pout. Once again your pattern asserts itself.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
It's not hard to smell RW BS. No speculation required.

We agree that he's the worst candidate by any party ever. Yet he's president.

Talk about deflection. He's YOUR candidate, not mine. Don't blame me for your mistake. That's dishonorable.

That's your citation? That's it? Groundless speculation is not a citation. You might want to look it up on Wikipedia. Why is it up to us to start a war with Russia?

Please. Our whole discussion started with your pompous use of "ilk" and then you referred to me directly as snowflake. Show some integrity here, please. Own up to what you wrote.

Ah, when names don't work you devolve straight to condescension. But really, is that the best you can do? It's obvious you're not creative enough to make a point stick. I'm guessing you don't belong to Mensa with such petulant schlock.
Do you ever "responsibly" proof read your schlock? How circular can you get? I assume because I want to assume? How droll. Guess what? I responded because... wait for it... wait for it... I wanted to respond! Woot! :D :D :D OK, OK how about this one... I laughed out loud, waking my cat because... wait for it... wait for it... I wanted to laugh out loud at your tripe. News flash: I don't think this is going to help your Mensa application. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I thought you should know. Circular logic is never good because it's "circular". See what I did there?

I assume because I want to assume! Bwahahahaha! I might have to use that in my sig line.

In other news, I ate because I wanted to eat, I breathed because I wanted to breathe and I watched the morning news because... wait for it... wait for it... I wanted to! :D :D :D Now my cheeks are wet with tears of mirth. Thanks for a great start to the day.
Obviously you have great difficulty with the nuances of the English language. perhaps it is because you aren't an English native speaker, I don't know. Go back to the post re snowflakes. You will not read me stating directly "you are a snowflake" I attributed a certain response to snowflakes in general, leaving you to decide if you were one, obviously you decided you were. As to the rest, I can only say that you are a legend in your own mind, like many democrats I have come across. Re read it, did you get it ? maybe a third reading will help, I did specifically refer to you, but not all democrats. I know it is difficult for you, but do you see even a glimmer of a distinction between the two ? Stay in that English night class, you will eventually grasp it, then you will be able to understand the language like most Americans do. Currently, you are lost in attempting to understand what is written, and I can't draw you pictures with this keyboard. Get it together, then get back to me.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
No insult cupcake

One thing I have learned about you, you NEVER address facts, you never provide facts. I think it is because you are just plain lazy.
I think the above pretty much speaks much more about you than I, and I am done trying to have any attempt trying to discuss anything with you. I post a link to a Politifact article that largely refutes what you posted, and then you accuse me of "NEVER addressing the facts". And then you call me "cupcake", which is a violation of the RoC here at RF in regards to name-calling.

Anyway, take care.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Obviously you have great difficulty with the nuances of the English language.
Your idea of a nuance is a 4 lb sledge. You're pretty obvious in your condescension.

So which is it?

You will not read me stating directly
or
I did specifically refer to you

It appears you've mastered Komrade Trumpsky speech. You say so much, but it means so little.


I think the above pretty much speaks much more about you than I
I agree. Why try to reason with an unreasonable person? He's so petty and nasty... Just like Komrade Trumpsky! Perhaps it's time for my fourth ignore of the week? Well, I am heading to Cayman Brac for the week. I might sign on, but I'll be in party mode. Scuba then party, then Scuba, then party... In between I'll try so sneak in some Scuba and some partying. For those who don't know: I call this work. It's a tough job, but someone has to do it.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
His "hatred or bigotry" haven't "translated" to his actions. Sometimes when your computer is completely corrupted the reset is just what you need. The challenge of course will be not to delete anything critical on the way. Trump is really just about a leaner/meaner government, and also one more focused on our own problems rather than saving the world. That has a potential to make things better far outside of the borders of the USA, if it is done well.

Don't mistake his harshness for volatility, he just doesn't take anyone's crap. If someone prints lies he calls them out, and I think he has the right to. There are no hostile policies toward foreigners that I am aware of, but please feel free to explain. :D It's not hostile to vet people or secure your borders -- things we should have already been doing.

The only reason his hatred and bigotry haven't translated into actions that much, as far as I can see, is that he hasn't assumed power yet. I'm more worried about when he does, since he already looks volatile and inflammable at the slightest offense to his ego.

It's hostile and bigoted to ban an entire religious group from entering one's country based on nothing but exaggeration and propaganda. I think many of his fellow hard-line conservatives are far more dangerous to the U.S. than Muslims have ever been.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
So what is the issue with the picture? What don't you like?

If a country whose army is responsible for hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths is the "greatest country on Earth," as proclaimed by its (soon-to-be-former) president and First Lady, then there's a considerable problem of implied overlooking or underestimating of the scale and moral implications of the deaths of so many people for no good reason.

You're going to see a greater intrusion into the secular contistution. You'll see more laws favored by christianity, more religious laws. More discrimination, etc. Trump won't make executive decisions, he'll have the people responsible for writing laws (republicans in congress) carry out the mission.

Dominionism is a dangerous thing, and this is exactly what the far right conservatives want. They put the bible before the constitution. They have no business being elected.

Which do you think is more dangerous: the fact that Trump is president or the fact that there are so many Republicans in Congress who are able to influence laws as a result?
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
What an amusing post. Obama has been an utter failure. GDP 1 1/2 per cent, total chaos in the Middle East. A "deal" with Iran that ASSURES they will have nuclear weapons, creation of a national debt larger than all other presidents, combined. an increased poverty rate, pitiful care for Veterans in the VA system, Removal of LARGE amounts of money from the VA to support Syrian alleged refugees, Continuing land grabs by the federal government that we in the Western States do not support, nor want, drawing red lines that become green lights, I could go on and on and on. HE IS AN ABYSMAL FAILURE. Now, to Trump. I was an original Republican #nevertrumper, but the facts are, he won the election. I am cautiously optomistic that he can improve the economy, increase jobs, and reassert America's influence in the world, squandered by Obama. I am willing to give him a chance before I become a snowflake running around screaming the sky is falling.

You're willing to give someone who advocated "grabbing people by the *****" a chance? Unless you don't believe that he advocated such, that is. I don't see how any positive things he could achieve would excuse such a sentiment or redeem him from his status as someone who has committed sexual assault, short of admitting that what he did was a crime and working on reforming himself. Of course, looking at his ego, I doubt that will happen any time soon... regardless of how much I hope to be proved wrong.

Also, I notice that you delved into attacking Obama even though the OP does criticize him because I also said Trump is worse. I wonder why the statement bothered you so much even though you haven't even seen Trump in office, meaning that he could actually turn out to be worse than Obama—possibly much worse.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Perhaps it's time for my fourth ignore of the week?
I already beat ya to the punch.

Well, I am heading to Cayman Brac for the week. I might sign on, but I'll be in party mode. Scuba then party, then Scuba, then party... In between I'll try so sneak in some Scuba and some partying. For those who don't know: I call this work. It's a tough job, but someone has to do it.
Have a great trip! I'm gonna be in that "socialist" country to our north;) early next week, but let me tell ya that I ain't doing any scuba diving. :(
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
If a country whose army is responsible for hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths is the "greatest country on Earth," as proclaimed by its (soon-to-be-former) president and First Lady, then there's a considerable problem of implied overlooking or underestimating of the scale and moral implications of the deaths of so many people for no good reason.
I don't think that's what they're referring to. Most people think the country they live/grew up in is great.


Which do you think is more dangerous: the fact that Trump is president or the fact that there are so many Republicans in Congress who are able to influence laws as a result?
The republican establishment in congress is much more dangerous than Trump. Conservatives voted to keep the establishment running the show. Even adding more to the swamp. Republicans in congress are lobbied by some of the most crooked and corrupt corporations in the country.

1 example.

Fossil Fuel companies = Lying about climate change
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Republicans in congress are lobbied by some of the most crooked and corrupt corporations in the country.
And if one checks it out, Exxon/Mobile has one of the worst environmental records of all American-owned oil companies.

BTW, Marathon/Speedway have one of the best environmental records.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
You're willing to give someone who advocated "grabbing people by the *****" a chance? Unless you don't believe that he advocated such, that is. I don't see how any positive things he could achieve would excuse such a sentiment or redeem him from his status as someone who has committed sexual assault, short of admitting that what he did was a crime and working on reforming himself. Of course, looking at his ego, I doubt that will happen any time soon... regardless of how much I hope to be proved wrong.

Also, I notice that you delved into attacking Obama even though the OP does criticize him because I also said Trump is worse. I wonder why the statement bothered you so much even though you haven't even seen Trump in office, meaning that he could actually turn out to be worse than Obama—possibly much worse.
Yes he could turn out to be worse, that is a possibility. I see no difference between his statements, and the fact that the democrat candidate broke the law in the handling of classified material. Yes, the FBI director, using prosecutorial discretion, he did not have, did not seek to indict her. He added an intent element to a statute that didn't have one. The law as written by Congress is a general intent law, no specific intent is required, Comey allowed a felon to go free ( read the statute), I dealt with the law every day for 25 years, and by education and experience am as well qualified as Comey to to comment on the subject. So, both candidates were total and complete losers. The worst was clinton, the next worst was trump. That is irrelevant now, the issue is obama. Lets expand it to his party as well. Let me call them the idiot party, here's why. When Republicans had control of the Senate in the 90's, they refused to use the so called "nuclear option" that would have given them control of nominations by a simple majority, democrats, so eager to impose their will over everything, exploded the fillibuster, now they are out, have set the precedent, and they will have no say in the selection of cabinet nominees. Republicans may even expand it to the Supreme court, destroying what the Founders desired, discussion and compromise in Congress. Thank you democrats, you have cut off your nose to spite your face, and encouraged more division. obama, with the same attitude, refused to work with congress, and tried to do everything he wanted by "executive order", continuously bypassing congress, denying the intent of established law. Having set that precedent, most everything he tried will be eliminated by executive order, and I suspect, since obama let Pandora out of the box, we will reel headlong to a more and more imperial presidency, the legislative branch will be more and more bypassed, they and us won't do anything but what their partisans want, more spiteful division, more dirty politics, a nation further divided. ALL the fault of the democrats, the end justifies the means as their mantra, have obliterated the checks and balances, have eliminated compromise, maybe have set the seeds for another civil war, following obama's precedent, the worst president in history.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
I did cringe a little when he said The USA is the greatest country in the world.



My eyebrows went up when he said, "most respected". Is it?

But I think the speech was done so well, I will stick with the A -.
Your idea of a nuance is a 4 lb sledge. You're pretty obvious in your condescension.

So which is it?


or


It appears you've mastered Komrade Trumpsky speech. You say so much, but it means so little.



I agree. Why try to reason with an unreasonable person? He's so petty and nasty... Just like Komrade Trumpsky! Perhaps it's time for my fourth ignore of the week? Well, I am heading to Cayman Brac for the week. I might sign on, but I'll be in party mode. Scuba then party, then Scuba, then party... In between I'll try so sneak in some Scuba and some partying. For those who don't know: I call this work. It's a tough job, but someone has to do it.
LOL, you allegedly put me on your ignore list close to a year ago, but you just keep coming back, like a moth to a flame. You and your like thinkers think gibberish somehow is superior to logic and reason. Reading what you two post is like reading a Laurel and Hardy treatise on the philosophy of Soren Kierkergarrd. Nonsense, but amusing. You two couldn't hit your butts with a hand full of sand.
 
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