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Good news for the unvaccinated?

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
... which is true. Do you disagree?

Of course. But my point isn't what's said just it's been repeated so much people just agree with it. I doubt the thought would cross people's mind if they weren't told you fear other people.

There's a psychological tool or theory I'd have to find that to get people to follow a cause you speak to their emotions and morals. For example, the mask thing when they said "it protects others not you." When you make it about others people ideally feel they are contributing to a universal cause. When someone questions it, there's a problem.

Some communication theorist study the effects of media persuasion. Communication Theories Some are less apparent than others. It works though.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
At first there wasn't any pressure or anything. Basically every adult who wanted one was able to get it.
And then to try to get the unvaccinated on board California launched PSAs encouraging it and even paid people to get it.

They're using a lot of incentives. Biden even offered a $100 bonus to federal workers to get vaccinated. Doctors don't push incentives for patients to make regular healthcare decisions.

I don't know if there are protests now but I did look up and came across protests in France. I "think" here states would have to enforce it. Thankfully some state governors are also thinking of consequences of vaccine mandates not just the benefits. Has there been any nonbias news about the cons of vac passports without it being associated with "antivax theories?"
 
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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Why? Be specific.

I've repeated many times throughout these threads. It's been discredited every time.

That's one reason people censor or claim misinformation. I mean even on RF if "antivaxxers" posted facts to defend their point its be considered a distortion of facts.

But my point was about propaganda not rehash my problems with seeing people as threats.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
I'm currently studying media messages. You may be interested in this.
BBC Short Video Introduction, The Medium is the Message | Social & Psychological Effects of Communication Technology

"McLuhan argues that the medium itself is the message, that throughout history what was communicated (message) has been less important than the particular medium through which people communicated. "

You can be influenced by how a message is sent more so the message itself. There have been studies.

All in all if vaccinated Do, it's more the end justifies the means.
Well some of us were around and reading McLuhan's works in the 1960s, and hence took note. So where would one look for the best information on any particular thing, especially if a lot of science was involved like a virus and its effects? Those most qualified to understand such perhaps and hence their advice as to dealing with this. Which is why the vast majority have heeded the advice given and been vaccinated when available, unless one had some medical issue to make things more complicated as to such. Having a mindblock isn't a good reason though.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Well some of us were around and reading McLuhan's works in the 1960s, and hence took note. So where would one look for the best information on any particular thing, especially if a lot of science was involved like a virus and its effects? Those most qualified to understand such perhaps and hence their advice as to dealing with this. Which is why the vast majority have heeded the advice given and been vaccinated when available, unless one had some medical issue to make things more complicated as to such. Having a mindblock isn't a good reason though.

With propaganda?

I know a lot of people studied media influence on public in various situations. Politics is a huge one. Not specific to COVID just used just the same.

I'm not sure how virus efficiency relates too much other than we just take any information given to us. But we're not professionals to critique but those skilled who do are censored.

Why censor unless the government thinks people can't think on their own. I think that's a huge problem and why the protests.


Do you agree propaganda is productive to get people to vaccinate?

Without it, would people vaccinate?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I've never seen you give anything close to a rational response. Usually, you just try to change the subject.

Not going to say why, then?

No. I just figure repeating it again incites more issues. Some people genuinely ask. I tell them than the others jump on it as if I said I'd kill the world.

You must have COVID to put people in danger. If not it's perceived danger. Media compounds the error.

If I came to you and you did not know I wasn't vaccinated everything would be fine. Once I tell you I am not, you believe you're in danger. Facts tell you you're in danger. But how do you know "yourself?"

I get Why you guys say you're in danger and unvaccinated is trying to prolong the pandemic. I disagree.

Do you guys understand or can one understand and disagree?
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
OK; I think I see the problem here and in other threads. I wish that I had looked at page 2 earlier. :oops::rolleyes::facepalm: @Unveiled Artist , per your discussions with @Subduction Zone as noted here….
The problem that I have with the term propaganda is based upon the usual use of the word:

information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view..

Even though Democrats have supported the vaccines more that does not make them a Democratic item. In fact many Republicans will point out how the Trump administration very strongly backed the development of the various vaccines. So it fails as a political issue. Is there anything misleading or biased in the information about the vaccines? Not that I have seen. I have seen strawman versions of the information by those that oppose them.

So where is the "propaganda". Unless you mean a lesser used version of that term. It would be nice if you stated exactly what you meant by using that term if your are not using that definition.
…you are being a confrontational nit-picker.
Yes, the definition of the word “propaganda” does exist as the following….

prop·a·gan·da. /ˌpräpəˈɡandə/
See definitions in: All Politics. Roman Catholic Church
noun. 1. information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.



But as @Subduction Zone points out you seem to be intentionally leaving out the “biased or misleading nature” from your definition.
Without that caveat then “propaganda” is the same word as “commercial campaign” or “information” or “educational materials”.
Society has, by and large, defined propaganda to distinctly include false and misleading information.
Being told the same thing over and over again, such as a child being told how to add single-digit numbers in elementary school, is not a sinister propaganda campaign. It is simply sharing correct information. It is “education”.
The educational campaign to get people to save themselves and all of us from a disease via vaccination is not propaganda, except in the imaginations of the most nit-picking English major. The fully alive and active campaign to get people to fight against their own best interests and turn down their free vaccine is, by all definitions, a truly heinous propaganda campaign.

And yes, :rolleyes: I know many twits who will jump up and scream :mad:“Educating?! Bah!! You mean “Indoctrinating!” :mad:

And they can all go suck a rock.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
OK; I think I see the problem here and in other threads. I wish that I had looked at page 2 earlier. :oops::rolleyes::facepalm: @Unveiled Artist , per your discussions with @Subduction Zone as noted here….
…you are being a confrontational nit-picker.
Yes, the definition of the word “propaganda” does exist as the following….

prop·a·gan·da. /ˌpräpəˈɡandə/
See definitions in: All Politics. Roman Catholic Church
noun. 1. information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.



But as @Subduction Zone points out you seem to be intentionally leaving out the “biased or misleading nature” from your definition.
Without that caveat then “propaganda” is the same word as “commercial campaign” or “information” or “educational materials”.
Society has, by and large, defined propaganda to distinctly include false and misleading information.
Being told the same thing over and over again, such as a child being told how to add single-digit numbers in elementary school, is not a sinister propaganda campaign. It is simply sharing correct information. It is “education”.
The educational campaign to get people to save themselves and all of us from a disease via vaccination is not propaganda, except in the imaginations of the most nit-picking English major. The fully alive and active campaign to get people to fight against their own best interests and turn down their free vaccine is, by all definitions, a truly heinous propaganda campaign.

And yes, :rolleyes: I know many twits who will jump up and scream :mad:“Educating?! Bah!! You mean “Indoctrinating!” :mad:

And they can all go suck a rock.

You articulated this better than I ever could.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
No. I just figure repeating it again incites more issues. Some people genuinely ask. I tell them than the others jump on it as if I said I'd kill the world.

You must have COVID to put people in danger. If not it's perceived danger. Media compounds the error.
But here's the thing:

- you don't know whether you have COVID-19.
- because you're unvaccinated and (as you've described in past threads) you have plenty of opportunity to get infected, there's a decent chance that you do have COVID-19 at any particular point.

What you're doing is the behaviour that's driving the pandemic. I get that you struggle with the basic math concepts behind this; I'm certainly not in a position (or particularly willing) to teach these concepts to you.

If I came to you and you did not know I wasn't vaccinated everything would be fine. Once I tell you I am not, you believe you're in danger. Facts tell you you're in danger. But how do you know "yourself?"
The fact that you might be able to hide the risk you pose to others doesn't mean the risk doesn't exist.
I get Why you guys say you're in danger and unvaccinated is trying to prolong the pandemic. I disagree.
It's not necessarily about motive; it's about effect.

I think that most anti-vaxxers - such as yourself - aren't so much trying to prolong the pandemic; it's more that you just don't care that you're prolonging the pandemic.

It is what you're doing, though.

Do you guys understand or can one understand and disagree?
No, I don't understand your position.

I can't tell if your thinking on the issue just isn't clear or if you're trying to make excuses for some other real set of reasons you aren't sharing, but I don't see your perspective on the vaccine as valid. I think it's rooted in ignorance and a misunderstanding of the facts.

That being said, I'm not going to force you to get vaccinated. You're free to be wrong on this... just don't do it around me or anyone else who doesn't want to get sick.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Thankfully some state governors are also thinking of consequences of vaccine mandates not just the benefits
The consequences are cry babies leave and make room for people who are considerate of others.
Has there been any nonbias news about the cons of vac passports without it being associated with "antivax theories?"
I don't think they exist as the data and science is very strongly pro-vax with there being no evidence based anti-vax positions.
I've repeated many times throughout these threads. It's been discredited every time.
All you've done is repeat anti-vax rhetoric.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
With propaganda?

I know a lot of people studied media influence on public in various situations. Politics is a huge one. Not specific to COVID just used just the same.

I'm not sure how virus efficiency relates too much other than we just take any information given to us. But we're not professionals to critique but those skilled who do are censored.

Why censor unless the government thinks people can't think on their own. I think that's a huge problem and why the protests.


Do you agree propaganda is productive to get people to vaccinate?

Without it, would people vaccinate?
But it's not propaganda. The majority scientific opinion would be behind vaccination. I don't know what goes on in the head of those who take against vaccination but I suspect it is down to an aversion to such things and then just looking for evidence to support such, and hence being confirmation bias basically. We are all taking risks with this, as in many things, but the benefits outweigh any other options.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't know how promoting the vaccine is like where you live but the US government does play with people's emotions and people follow whether it's to buy a product or fight a cause they believe in.

I'm not sure why I haven't picked up that growing up, though. Outside looking in to some extent.
Propaganda is about promoting a false message or idea. Unless you are contesting the well established fact that vaccines are effective in protecting people against serious Covid induced sickness, what exactly is the false message here?
One can certainly develop messages that create emotional reactions or are attention grabbing. That is what advertisement is all about. Only if the message itself is promoting a false idea or narrative that it becomes a propaganda.
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
It's very biased. I didn't say it wasn't factual. I said that the promotion of facts and opinions are highly one sided. In this case it's unapologetically so. I personally have a problem with it but I'm terribly surprised people just don't see it. Maybe they think it's an antivaxxer thing but this has been going on throughout history.

When your facts and opinions promote oneside it is biased, the other side no matter how true it is is censored or deleted as misinformation.

Government repeat misinformation so much people just believe it automatically.

It's almost cult like to be honest. Facts should be presented neutral.

It's not the facts (although I don't use them as one would see scripture), but how they are promoted in light of persuading people to vax though propaganda.
How is it biased? This is an important issue and there appears to be only one answer. Or at least one rational one. Maybe that is what you meant to say:

"It is very rational"

The reason why they are "unapologetic" is because the evidence supports them extremely strongly and there does not appear to be any rational objection to the vaccines at all.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
But it's not propaganda. The majority scientific opinion would be behind vaccination. I don't know what goes on in the head of those who take against vaccination but I suspect it is down to an aversion to such things and then just looking for evidence to support such, and hence being confirmation bias basically. We are all taking risks with this, as in many things, but the benefits outweigh any other options.

Its how it's promoted not what. Of course scientific community community would support it.

Repeated history. I've not seen it this strong before. But given the urgency, it's a second to last resort with the mandates.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Propaganda is about promoting a false message or idea. Unless you are contesting the well established fact that vaccines are effective in protecting people against serious Covid induced sickness, what exactly is the false message here?
One can certainly develop messages that create emotional reactions or are attention grabbing. That is what advertisement is all about. Only if the message itself is promoting a false idea or narrative that it becomes a propaganda.

The definition also includes bias. In WW1 they used it to promote fighting in the war.

It's a fact. It's used to get people to vaccinate. I posted a link on it.

World War Propaganda Posters | Historical Spotlight | News | Wargaming

In this case it's for a national cause. Something that's been implemented for awhile.

Why not?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Propaganda is about promoting a false message or idea. Unless you are contesting the well established fact that vaccines are effective in protecting people against serious Covid induced sickness, what exactly is the false message here?
One can certainly develop messages that create emotional reactions or are attention grabbing. That is what advertisement is all about. Only if the message itself is promoting a false idea or narrative that it becomes a propaganda.

Post 22 is example supporting what I said above.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
How is it biased? This is an important issue and there appears to be only one answer. Or at least one rational one. Maybe that is what you meant to say:

"It is very rational"

The reason why they are "unapologetic" is because the evidence supports them extremely strongly and there does not appear to be any rational objection to the vaccines at all.

I just disagree with How they are pushing the information. I'm surprised you don't see it in general (in the US) but it's successful. For some reason I've always been turned off by that though.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I just disagree with How they are pushing the information. I'm surprised you don't see it in general (in the US) but it's successful. For some reason I've always been turned off by that though.
When a person cannot make one's own rational responses their disagreement is toothless. I can disagree that the Earth is not Flat. But if I cannot show why such a claim is incorrect my disagreement does not amount to a hill of beans.
 
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