Good news for the unvaccinated?

[Subduction Zone]

The statistics used to be that for every one or two people that were vaccinated that died from Covid 98 or 99 unvaccinated would pass away:

Staggering COVID-19 Statistic: 98% to 99% of Americans Dying are Unvaccinated - AU/UGA Medical Partnership

Well now it is not quite the same. Being unvaccinated is only 32 times more deadly than being vaccinated:

New data dashboard tracks COVID-19 risk for unvaccinated people compared to vaccinated people – PUBLIC HEALTH INSIDER

• 7 times more likely to test positive for COVID-19 than vaccinated people
• 49 times more likely to be hospitalized than vaccinated people
• 32 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than vaccinated people.

Now this is probably at least partially due to the huge number of people that have been vaccinated.

Okay, let's take the tongue out of cheek and get serious. The unvaccinated are still 7 times more likely to test positive. Which means that they are 7 times more likely to pass the disease on (actually probably higher for various reasons that I can get into). This is the statistic that bothers me the most. It tells us that the current surge is due to the unvaccinated.

Forty nine times more likely to get hospitalized. Hopefully your insurance is paid up.

And still 32 times more likely to die.

I do not wish death on anyone. And since these deaths are so easily preventable for the most part these statistics still drive me a bit mad. Why trust those that simply say what you want to hear but cannot support their claims with reliable evidence? Are vaccinations so scary to the science deniers that they would rather put themselves, and as a result all of their loved ones, at risk/

 

[Twilight Hue]

I just want this blasted thing to be done and over with.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Rats. I thought this would be one less highlight unvaccinated poor choice thread. That would have been good news if we cared for all people dying of COVID.

I guess my hopes weren't high enough.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The statistics used to be that for every one or two people that were vaccinated that died from Covid 98 or 99 unvaccinated would pass away:

Staggering COVID-19 Statistic: 98% to 99% of Americans Dying are Unvaccinated - AU/UGA Medical Partnership

Well now it is not quite the same. Being unvaccinated is only 32 times more deadly than being vaccinated:

New data dashboard tracks COVID-19 risk for unvaccinated people compared to vaccinated people – PUBLIC HEALTH INSIDER

• 7 times more likely to test positive for COVID-19 than vaccinated people
• 49 times more likely to be hospitalized than vaccinated people
• 32 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than vaccinated people.

Now this is probably at least partially due to the huge number of people that have been vaccinated.

Okay, let's take the tongue out of cheek and get serious. The unvaccinated are still 7 times more likely to test positive. Which means that they are 7 times more likely to pass the disease on (actually probably higher for various reasons that I can get into). This is the statistic that bothers me the most. It tells us that the current surge is due to the unvaccinated.

Forty nine times more likely to get hospitalized. Hopefully your insurance is paid up.

And still 32 times more likely to die.

I do not wish death on anyone. And since these deaths are so easily preventable for the most part these statistics still drive me a bit mad. Why trust those that simply say what you want to hear but cannot support their claims with reliable evidence? Are vaccinations so scary to the science deniers that they would rather put themselves, and as a result all of their loved ones, at risk/

When you approach it like this it backfires. Unvaccinated, at least I hope, wouldn't make choices cause there are high stats of death because they're not vaxed. Also, those numbers don't specify who chose not to vac and who did not.

It's a hell-fire tactic (the argument and how you approached it). It's counterproductive.

 

[Revoltingest]

The statistics used to be that for every one or two people that were vaccinated that died from Covid 98 or 99 unvaccinated would pass away:

Staggering COVID-19 Statistic: 98% to 99% of Americans Dying are Unvaccinated - AU/UGA Medical Partnership

Well now it is not quite the same. Being unvaccinated is only 32 times more deadly than being vaccinated:

New data dashboard tracks COVID-19 risk for unvaccinated people compared to vaccinated people – PUBLIC HEALTH INSIDER

• 7 times more likely to test positive for COVID-19 than vaccinated people
• 49 times more likely to be hospitalized than vaccinated people
• 32 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than vaccinated people.

Now this is probably at least partially due to the huge number of people that have been vaccinated.

Okay, let's take the tongue out of cheek and get serious. The unvaccinated are still 7 times more likely to test positive. Which means that they are 7 times more likely to pass the disease on (actually probably higher for various reasons that I can get into). This is the statistic that bothers me the most. It tells us that the current surge is due to the unvaccinated.

Forty nine times more likely to get hospitalized. Hopefully your insurance is paid up.

And still 32 times more likely to die.

I do not wish death on anyone. And since these deaths are so easily preventable for the most part these statistics still drive me a bit mad. Why trust those that simply say what you want to hear but cannot support their claims with reliable evidence? Are vaccinations so scary to the science deniers that they would rather put themselves, and as a result all of their loved ones, at risk/

Silly man.
Anti-vaxers do not see risk of death &
infirmity from a quantitative perspective.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Unvaccinated, at least I hope, wouldn't make choices cause there are high stats of death because they're not vaxed.

What? That's the single most important reason we get vaccinated for diseases like polio and avoid highly fatal activities: they have a statistically high risk of causing death. The high risk means they substantially increase one's risk of preventable death, much like doing 150 mph in a 50 mph zone, so most reasonable people take this into account and take steps to avoid the risky activities.

It's a hell-fire tactic (the argument and how you approached it). It's counterproductive.

Your objection amounts to saying that because a fact is unpleasant, pointing it out as a reason to take precautions is a "hellfire tactic." What this implies is that we should either gloss over statistical, demonstrable risks or simply downplay them, and neither seems to me a reasonable or responsible path to take.

Medical professionals have discouraged smoking and alcoholism for decades due to the risks they carry, and tobacco packaging in many countries even has warnings about its health risks. How is pointing out the health risks of COVID any different?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Silly man.
Anti-vaxers do not see risk of death &
infirmity from a quantitative perspective.

Correct statistical analysis really is an underestimated skill. Schools don't teach enough of it, in my opinion. Just throwing raw math at kids without explaining how to apply it to real-world situations like statistical analysis is a major mistake.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What? That's the single most important reason we get vaccinated for diseases like polio and avoid highly fatal activities: they have a statistically high risk of causing death. The high risk means they substantially increase one's risk of preventable death, much like doing 150 mph in a 50 mph zone, so most reasonable people take this into account and take steps to avoid the risky activities.

I hope it's not the primary reason, though. 1800s, though, didn't have the medical sciences we have now. If there were a polio outbreak now I'd assume it won't get really far. You'd have to compare it to something more recent.

Take into account is different than basing your decisions on stats.

 

[Revoltingest]

Correct statistical analysis really is an underestimated skill. Schools don't teach enough of it, in my opinion. Just throwing raw math at kids without explaining how to apply it to real-world situations like statistical analysis is a major mistake.

Given some of the discussions I've had with anti-vaxers
& semi-anti-vaxers, I don't think teaching statistics would
have any effect. They just don't see things that way.
Cthulhu knows I've tried.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Rats. I thought this would be one less highlight unvaccinated poor choice thread. That would have been good news if we cared for all people dying of COVID.

I guess my hopes weren't high enough.

It is BECAUSE people care about the unvaccinated that post like this are made. It is also why the vaccinated folks are likely to mask up at the store or mall. To protect the unvaccinated. (Even though it is the unvaccinated who are less likely to wear masks).

It’s tough love kid. Be thankful for it and be on your way, to the pharmacy to get a vaccine.
———————————————————————————————

But since you bring it up….In your opinion; how exactly should we get unvaccinated people?

Dear neighbors,

We have heard that you have recently chosen not to vaccinate yourself from the pandemic SARS virus currently killing hundreds of thousands of US citizens and millions of people world-wide. We would love to have a sit-down chat with you to hear all of your reasons for this …….. decision. I’m sure that your reasoning would make for a fascinating and useful evening of conversation……blah….blah…blah….lie….lie…pander…pander….pander.

—————————————————-
Seriously though. How do we phrase it when those not vaccinated are endangering themselves, their loved ones, us and our loved ones, everyone not vaccinated including every child under 12, as well as millions who are immune-suppressed (like my own mom who is undergoing chemotherapy as I type this). The views and myths eaten up by those who are refusing vaccines are absurd at best. At worst they are intentionally ignorant as well as selfishly and violently against humanity as a whole.
And no, that is not hyperbole. It is sadly and boringly factual.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It is BECAUSE people care about the unvaccinated that post like this are made. It is also why the vaccinated folks are likely to mask up at the store or mall. To protect the unvaccinated. (Even though it is the unvaccinated who are less likely to wear masks).

It’s tough love kid. Be thankful for it and be on your way, to the pharmacy to get a vaccine.
———————————————————————————————

But since you bring it up….In your opinion; how exactly should we get unvaccinated people?

Dear neighbors,

We have heard that you have recently chosen not to vaccinate yourself from the pandemic SARS virus currently killing hundreds of thousands of US citizens and millions of people world-wide. We would love to have a sit-down chat with you to hear all of your reasons for this …….. decision. I’m sure that your reasoning would make for a fascinating and useful evening of conversation……blah….blah…blah….lie….lie…pander…pander….pander.

—————————————————-
Seriously though. How do we phrase it when those not vaccinated are endangering themselves, their loved ones, us and our loved ones, everyone not vaccinated including every child under 12, as well as millions who are immune-suppressed (like my own mom who is undergoing chemotherapy as I type this). The views and myths eaten up by those who are refusing vaccines are absurd at best. At worst they are intentionally ignorant as well as selfishly and violently against humanity as a whole.
And no, that is not hyperbole. It is sadly and boringly factual.

I wish this were true. I really do.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

I wish this were true. I really do.

Yes. I wish there really was a way that we could get them to recognize reality too.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes. I wish there really was a way that we could get them to recognize reality too.

Speaking of vaccinated caring about unvax.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Silly man.
Anti-vaxers do not see risk of death &
infirmity from a quantitative perspective.

Yes as we can see, science deniers will be science deniers. What irritates me is not them risking their own lives, but in risking the lives of others. And all to often those that refuse to get vaccinated are also those that resist wearing masks. That makes it a double whammy. If people only put their own lives at risk I would not mind so much. The best analogy I have seen for this so far is not the seatbelt analogy. That most involves self protection, but the drunk driver analogy where they risk the lives of both themselves and others.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Speaking of vaccinated caring about unvax.

Getting vaccinated IS caring. Wearing masks IS caring. Trying to get the unvaccinated to take the vaccine IS caring.
And is this for the benefit of the vaccinated? No. It is primarily for the safety and well-being of the UNvaccinated.


But, we can’t keep this up by ourselves. The unvaccinated have to start caring for themselves, and stop endangering themselves along with everyone else.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Getting vaccinated IS caring. Wearing masks IS caring. Trying to get the unvaccinated to take the vaccine IS caring.
And is this for the benefit of the vaccinated? No. It is primarily for the safety and well-being of the UNvaccinated.


But, we can’t keep this up by ourselves. The unvaccinated have to start caring for themselves, and stop endangering themselves along with everyone else.

That in part the ideal vaccinate for the unvax "and" the vax but in reality (least in the states) it's 100% not the case.

I think if vaccinated scare unvax long enough they'd fold or fight. Who knows. Even if all vaxed there would be in another war because some want the booster and others don't.

I wonder how many would vax if experts and government didn't tell the vaxed they are in danger from the unvaxed. There is so much propaganda against the unvaxed that I feel a lot of vax arguments are confirmation bias more and more emphasized by media and US government.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That in part the ideal vaccinate for the unvax "and" the vax but in reality (least in the states) it's 100% not the case.

I think if vaccinated scare unvax long enough they'd fold or fight. Who knows. Even if all vaxed there would be in another war because some want the booster and others don't.

I wonder how many would vax if experts and government didn't tell the vaxed they are in danger from the unvaxed. There is so much propaganda against the unvaxed that I feel a lot of vax arguments are confirmation bias more and more emphasized by media and US government.

How is that propaganda? It is merely statistics and reality.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

That in part the ideal vaccinate for the unvax "and" the vax but in reality (least in the states) it's 100% not the case.

I think if vaccinated scare unvax long enough they'd fold or fight. Who knows. Even if all vaxed there would be in another war because some want the booster and others don't.

I wonder how many would vax if experts and government didn't tell the vaxed they are in danger from the unvaxed. There is so much propaganda against the unvaxed that I feel a lot of vax arguments are confirmation bias more and more emphasized by media and US government.

Please indicate what specific items you feel are “propaganda”.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That in part the ideal vaccinate for the unvax "and" the vax but in reality (least in the states) it's 100% not the case.

I think if vaccinated scare unvax long enough they'd fold or fight. Who knows. Even if all vaxed there would be in another war because some want the booster and others don't.

I wonder how many would vax if experts and government didn't tell the vaxed they are in danger from the unvaxed. There is so much propaganda against the unvaxed that I feel a lot of vax arguments are confirmation bias more and more emphasized by media and US government.

You think we had to be told to get vaccinated? We comprehend a very deadly and extremely contagious virus is currently in pandemic mode and that vaccines are the best bet to not get the disease they vaccinate against. This is why so many of us now had a childhood free of polio and knowing iron lungs only in history books. That happened because of vaccines.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Please indicate what specific items you feel are “propaganda”.

Oh my goodness, you'd be surprised.

I can't screenshot everything even though that would be nice. But why would it not be true?

US has been using propaganda for causes for decades.