Sorry - when I said "citizen," I meant to say "civilian."
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Good guys with guns.
- Thread starter Prometheus85
- Start date
BSM1
What? Me worry?
If you were faced with an active shooter situation at an elementary school what action would you take?
More details, first, please:
- I'm not a staff member. Am I in the school?
- If I'm in the school, I'm presumably not armed. Schools around here don't allow so much as a Swiss Army knife.
- If I'm outside the school, how do I know that there's an active shooter situation?
- If I'm outside the school, do I just happen to be carrying or transporting a gun and ammo? If so, why?
BSM1
What? Me worry?
You're dodging the question. Well played.
That's a good point. But in our climate, the same climate being more driven by the NRA, the probability of a gun fight happening doesn't seem to be decreasing now is it?
No, I'm not. I'm pointing out that even considering whether to come in ready to kill someone assumes:
1. I'm roaming around with guns to begin with.
2. I somehow find out about the shooting and I'm able to respond quicker than the cops do.
The odds of premise 2 being true are so astronomically low that the possibility isn't worth taking seriously.
... but premise 1? For that to be true, I'd be carrying weapons all the time. With very few exceptions, the civilian carrying around weapons ready to shoot people is not a "good guy with a gun."
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
The last survey I saw was that the vast majority of teachers do not want to carry one nor have other teachers carry one.
If I'm in a class carrying one, what keeps Crazy Carl from taking it and just start firing away, assuming that he knows where the safety is of course? And if Crazy Carl comes in with his AR-15 while wearing a bullet-proof vest, do I stand really any chance of getting the upper hand?
Here's one "formula" that's been well established by the researchers: more people with guns = more deaths-- and that's a fact, Jack. .
If I'm in a class carrying one, what keeps Crazy Carl from taking it and just start firing away, assuming that he knows where the safety is of course? And if Crazy Carl comes in with his AR-15 while wearing a bullet-proof vest, do I stand really any chance of getting the upper hand?
Here's one "formula" that's been well established by the researchers: more people with guns = more deaths-- and that's a fact, Jack. .
If you have a handgun, it should be holstered & concealed.
Of the many people I know who carry concealed, no one has
ever taken it away. Your scenario is extraordinarily unlikely.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Okay, I'll play. Let's imagine the worst case scenario. If you were in this situation and you had to act what would be your best case solution?
In the unlikely event that I happen to just be passing by a school and I notice a gunman through the window shooting at people? I'd call 911 and take cover. What would you do that you expect to be more effective?
The school staff has a set plan for emergencies. The students have drilled that plan. The cops know the plan as well and expect everyone who's legitimately in the school to be following it.
If I as an outsider try to run into the school (BTW: would I even be able to do this, or would the doors all be locked?), what would that accomplish? Now the school is dealing with two intruders instead of one. My presence would just create confusion and could delay police response: the cops could end up responding to me first instead of the attacker (and if I'm an armed intruder roaming the halls, would you blame them for thinking I was an attacker, too)?
It would be idiotic for a civilian passerby to run into a school shooting armed.
... and preparing for that possibility means carrying ready guns all the time, which is its own type of idiocy.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Did I say otherwise? I'm just saying you can't arm every Joe Shmoe and expect that they'll all pull off a "Dirty Harry" in every situation.
Did I say that you said otherwise?
Now I'm not saying that you said that I said that you said otherwise...just clarifying Rambo's intent (I hope).
Of course.
We all know many people who should never carry guns.
I should be given a special laser pointer to aim at people,
& have this recorded with some government database
of people who need watching & close supervision.
(You can trust me with this power.)
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
So you think the chances of things going wrong when bunch of random civs draw their weapons during a moment of panic, confusion, and chaos are just as a remote as a meteor strike?
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Yep. Don't you?
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Nope. Do you?
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Evidently you didn't read my post.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Or, being aware of the shooting situation, you see a guy with a gun and shoot him, only for it to turn out that he was an undercover cop on response or another armed citizen who was trying do the same thing you were. Or cops on scene spot you with a gun, presume you're the shooter and take you out.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Yeah, I did. I just gave it the response it deserved.
Those are all possibilities, but what is in the realm of likelihood?
I've read of many cases of using a gun in self defense, & I don't
recall either of those scenarios.
This is not to say there won't be accidents, but it should be about
cost v benefit analysis.....not worst case scenarios driving policy.
Criminy, we can't even trust cops to behave responsibly,
but we recognize the net benefit of their being armed.