Golden calf and bible?

[Master Vigil]

Ok, this is a wierd idea. I know that the first commandment says not to worship any other god, or an idol. And thats what moses found with the golden calf insident. Now, they were not necessarily worshipping the golden calf, but what it represented correct? These days do you think some christians worship the bible because it is "god's word," or perhaps "god"? Is this a form of worshipping an idol? And I'm sure some believe the difference between the bible and god, but they still believe the bible is infallible, but isn't thats god's department?

 

[No*s]

Yes it is. Some of us in Christianity who don't hold to the infallability of Scripture have often called that "bibliolatry." Since I abandoned Sola Scriptura, I've gone so far as to consider that the same thing.

We agree on this point as far as it's gone .

 

[painted wolf]

The image of the golden calf was most likely a representation of Hathor a competing deity.
What about Crosses and Crusifixes and Jesus fish and the like?
Arn't they all idols as well?

wa:do

 

[may]

John 4:23, 24, JB: "True worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth: that is the kind of worshipper the Father wants. God is spirit, and those who worship must worship in spirit and truth." (Those who rely on images as aids to devotion are not worshiping God "in spirit" but they depend on what they can see with their physical eyes.)

 

[No*s]

John 4:23, 24, JB: "True worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth: that is the kind of worshipper the Father wants. God is spirit, and those who worship must worship in spirit and truth." (Those who rely on images as aids to devotion are not worshiping God "in spirit" but they depend on what they can see with their physical eyes.)

So, May, did God command the worshippers in the Old Testament not to worship in spirit and truth, when He commanded the building of the Ark of the Coevenant and all those wonderful images in the Temple?

 

[jewscout]

So, May, did God command the worshippers in the Old Testament not to worship in spirit and truth, when He commanded the building of the Ark of the Coevenant and all those wonderful images in the Temple?

They were ordered to build exactly what was specified and no more for fear of bringing in idolitry into the Temple.

There should be no image or representation worshiped...only HaShem Himself

 

[No*s]

They were ordered to build exactly what was specified and no more for fear of bringing in idolitry into the Temple.

There should be no image or representation worshiped...only HaShem Himself

Yes, this is very true (to a degree). One need remember that we have uncovered ancient synagogues, and they had some images. These passages with images also play into Christian theology quite a bit also. We may venerate, but not adore (worship) things.

Many sects like to use the prohibition against images to forbid everything from pledging to the flag to crosses to even fundamental Christian ideology. Rarely do they grapple with these passages. That's why I brought it up .

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The image of the golden calf was most likely a representation of Hathor a competing deity.

It was standard Syro-Palestinian iconography that could have easily represented Baal, Dagon, El, etc. This is also reflected in the text, i.e., "These are your Gods [plural], Oh Israel."

Note, by the way, that this is another example of text that was subsequently 'cleaned up' by the redactors ...

 

[may]

So, May, did God command the worshippers in the Old Testament not to worship in spirit and truth, when He commanded the building of the Ark of the Coevenant and all those wonderful images in the Temple?

.​

​

These representations, however, were not idols for worship. Only the officiating priests saw the representations of the tabernacle interior and, later, of the temple interior. No one but the high priest entered the Most Holy, and that only on the Day of Atonement. (Heb 9:7) so there was no danger of the Israelites’ being ensnared into idolizing the golden cherubs in the sanctuary. These representations primarily served as a picture of the heavenly cherubs. (Compare Heb 9:24, 25.) That they were not to be venerated is evident from the fact that the angels themselves were not to be worshiped.—Col 2:18; Re 19:10; 22:8, 9.​

Of course, there were times when images became idols, although not originally intended as objects of veneration. The copper serpent that Moses formed in the wilderness came to be worshiped, and therefore faithful King Hezekiah crushed it to pieces. (Nu 21:9; 2Ki 18:1, 4) The ephod made by Judge Gideon became "a snare" to him and to his household.—Jg 8:27

 

[No*s]

Your whole explanation is rather contrived, though. For instance, the bronze serpent you mentioned is an image God commanded to be made, and this same image was looked up to whenever they were stricken by serpants. The Ark of the Covenant was seen by the people on several occasions, such as when it was toted out.

Those two instances alone show that it wasn't so that the common man wouldn't see it. It was a living, breathing part of ancient Judaism. That they were destroyed also indicates that there was a limitation on how we should treat them.

 

[may]

Your whole explanation is rather contrived, though. For instance, the bronze serpent you mentioned is an image God commanded to be made, and this same image was looked up to whenever they were stricken by serpants. The Ark of the Covenant was seen by the people on several occasions, such as when it was toted out.

Those two instances alone show that it wasn't so that the common man wouldn't see it. It was a living, breathing part of ancient Judaism. That they were destroyed also indicates that there was a limitation on how we should treat them.

​

The copper figure or representation of a serpent made by Moses during Israel’s trek in the wilderness. Near the border of Edom the people showed a rebellious spirit, complaining about the miraculously provided manna and the water supply. Jehovah therefore punished them by sending poisonous serpents among them, and many persons died from serpent bites. After the people showed repentance and Moses interceded for them, Jehovah told him to make a figure in the form of a serpent and to place it upon a signal pole. Moses complied, and "it did occur that if a serpent had bitten a man and he gazed at the copper serpent, he then kept alive."—Nu 21:4-9; 1Co 10:9.


​

​

The Israelites kept the copper serpent and later improperly began to worship it, making sacrificial smoke to it. Hence, as part of his religious reforms, Judean King Hezekiah (745-717 B.C.E.) had the more than 700-year-old copper serpent crushed to pieces because the people had made an idol of it.


​

Jesus Christ made clear the prophetic meaning of the wilderness event involving the copper serpent when he told Nicodemus: "Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man. And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so the Son of man must be lifted up, that everyone believing in him may have everlasting life." (Joh 3:13-15) Like the copper serpent that Moses placed on a pole in the wilderness, the Son of God was impaled or fastened on a stake, thus appearing to many as an evildoer and a sinner, like a snake, being in the position of one cursed. (De 21:22, 23; Ga 3:13; 1Pe 2:24) In the wilderness a person who had been bitten by one of the poisonous serpents that Jehovah sent among the Israelites evidently had to gaze at the copper serpent in faith. Similarly, to gain everlasting life through Christ, it is necessary to exercise faith in him.

 

[No*s]

And none of that lessons the point I made. In fact, the details are the very history I appealed to.

 

[Master Vigil]

It is funny how people who argue against the bible being an idol, use the bible to do so. When they say, "god said this," they go to the bible. But the bible isn't god. Some believe it is gods word, but god doesn't speak anymore, only the bible does (atleast thats how some people make it out to be.) They try to prove the existence of god by using the bible, they try to argue what god wants by using the bible, etc... Is the bible god now? Do people take it too literally?

 

[jewscout]

It is funny how people who argue against the bible being an idol, use the bible to do so. When they say, "god said this," they go to the bible. But the bible isn't god. Some believe it is gods word, but god doesn't speak anymore, only the bible does (atleast thats how some people make it out to be.) They try to prove the existence of god by using the bible, they try to argue what god wants by using the bible, etc... Is the bible god now? Do people take it too literally?

I think the emphasis on the bible...or the Torah...whatever...is because when prophesy ended the way that man would be able to "communicate" with G-d would be through the study of Torah...that makes the Torah the conduit between G-d and man until the time of the Moshiach.

 

[No*s]

It is funny how people who argue against the bible being an idol, use the bible to do so. When they say, "god said this," they go to the bible. But the bible isn't god. Some believe it is gods word, but god doesn't speak anymore, only the bible does (atleast thats how some people make it out to be.) They try to prove the existence of god by using the bible, they try to argue what god wants by using the bible, etc... Is the bible god now? Do people take it too literally?

I would dare say there is a difference between using the Bible, and considering it authoritative and even inspired, and making it the sole focus of a person's spiritual life. When I use the Bible in an argument, I do so because I consider it authoritative, and so it is a guide, and often because the other party does. If they don't, I don't use it any further than to clarify my points.

Do people take it too literally? Yes, they can, but I think we would disagree on where that point lies .