Going against the natural order

[Erebus]

One thing I notice many LHPers talk about is going against the natural order/separation from normality or whatever else you want to call it.
I've been reflecting on this concept recently and would greatly appreciate a little input regarding what you yourself consider to be "the natural order", what separation from that order entails, why this is desirable and how you go about doing it.

If you don't hold this idea then by all means share why not.

Thanks

 

[ScottySatan]

The word "natural" seems to have been created to be opposed to something called "artificial". The concept of artificiality is from a more ignorant time and it's ready to die.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

To do something unnatural would mean to elevate yourself to a position outside of the system. I see no reason to bring transcendentalism into this life.

Normalcy is just the illusion of order in a world of chaos, and a poorly built illusion at that.

 

[Kori Houghton]

In my view, a separation from the natural order would be something like:

not keeping a tradition
violating a taboo
breaking a law
breaking an oath
violating a treaty
cheating on a business agreement

A person who deliberately does somthing like this for what they see as moral or ethical or philosphical reasons has taken the LHP. There are consequences for doing things outside the expected rules and order, but that consequence can be necessary change. A benefit to your society.

I, too, think the word "natural" is not best choice. Maybe I like "universal" better.

Living in a way that improves yourself and causes you to grow in experience and wisdom is not necessarily LHP.

Personally, I have not kept traditions because I think they are stupid. I break taboos if I think it's worth the bother. I have broken one oath. I think almost everyone alive has broken a law or several. I would never mistreat my customers, though. :angel2: I enjoy making people think, and if I have to be offensive to do that, sometimes I'll go for it, anyway

 

[Adramelek]

One thing I notice many LHPers talk about is going against the natural order/separation from normality or whatever else you want to call it.
I've been reflecting on this concept recently and would greatly appreciate a little input regarding what you yourself consider to be "the natural order", what separation from that order entails, why this is desirable and how you go about doing it.

Thanks

Thank you for asking Shyanekh. As I Left-Hand Path Magician or Setian one of the ways I have come to view the Universe or natural order is as a non-thinking perpetual motion machine continuously propelling forwards through cycles of life and death which take on a seemingly limitless variety of shapes and forms. The cosmic order as a mindless non-thinking emotionless machine cannot contemplate itself, it simply exists and is what it is and does what it does.

We human beings possess a unique quality or element that the natural order does not; sentience, a sense of Self, awareness of being, isolate intelligence which distinguishes and seperates us from the rest of the natural order of things. This unique quality enables us to view and study the Universe from both an objective and subjective perspective. It is what allows us to see individual perceptions of "beauty" and "cruelty" within the universal mechanism.

It is the very fact that the natural order does not possess sentience or awareness or isolate intelligence and that we do is what makes us seperate and distinct from the natural order of things. Where is the proof of all this one may ask... well, we are the proof. Our very ability to even ask the questions and to formulate answers through study and contemplation is proof of our higher intellect.

The very ability to contemplate and formulate the sentence "I think, therefore, I Am" is proof that we are self-aware beings. It is also this sense of Self which gives us the power of willful creative identity i.e., "Black Magic"; the skill to cause creation and/or destruction utilizing our abstract sense of the self-aware psyche and our six senses - sound, sight, smell, taste, touch, abstract philosophy of the self-aware mind, i.e. "the sense of hightened intellect."

How and why have we come to possess this unique sense of awareness, self-identity, and hightened intellect that is the "sixth sense"? To me, the answer can be found in the First Part of the Word of Set:

"I am within and beyond you, the Highest of Life, in majesty greater than the forces of the Universe; whose eyes are the Face of the Sun and the Dark Fire of Set; who fashioned your intelligence as his own and reached forth to exalt you; who entrusted to you dignity of consiousness; who opened your eyes that you might know beauty; who brought you the key to knowledge of all lesser things; and who enshrined in you the Will to Come Into Being. Lift your voices, then, and recognize the Highest of Life who thus proclaims your triumph; whose being is beyond natural life and death; who came as a flame to your world and enlightened your desire for perfection and truth..."

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[ScottySatan]

not keeping a tradition
violating a taboo
breaking a law
breaking an oath
violating a treaty
cheating on a business agreement

A person who deliberately does somthing like this for what they see as moral or ethical or philosphical reasons has taken the LHP.

There's an interesting thought. Do you mean to say that the LHP describes the life of someone who feels ethically obliged to break the rules? Do others here say that this describes them? How does this differ from just being a teenager?

 

[Kori Houghton]

There's an interesting thought. Do you mean to say that the LHP describes the life of someone who feels ethically obliged to break the rules? Do others here say that this describes them? How does this differ from just being a teenager?

Not "describes the life" but the event and the motivations and thoughts behind it.

I am guessing your comment about teenagers was a joke Because it would be tragic for the human species if mature individuals always felt ethically obliged to follow the rules no matter the consequences.

I really am not concerned with what others here have said because I am not attributing my ideas to them or basing my ideas on their words. AFAIK, the OP was asking for us to offer our own views.

 

[ScottySatan]

I really am not concerned with what others here have said because I am not attributing my ideas to them or basing my ideas on their words. AFAIK, the OP was asking for us to offer our own views.

Nah, I just wanted you to expand a little. I think the idea is unique. It's something I've never heard before, which is getting to be rare in internet Satanism. If I thought your idea was crap, I would have been straightforward in saying it.

Also, I was inviting people to chime in and tell us if they thought this was accurate. My own judgement on it so far is "Yes and no".

 

[Kori Houghton]

Nah, I just wanted you to expand a little. I think the idea is unique. It's something I've never heard before, which is getting to be rare in internet Satanism. If I thought your idea was crap, I would have been straightforward in saying it.

Also, I was inviting people to chime in and tell us if they thought this was accurate. My own judgement on it so far is "Yes and no".

Thanks for expanding your question -- I get it now :yes:

There is a common motif in myth and legendary history in many cultures of a ruler, war leader, or god, losing a body part. Usually one on the right side. This precedes him breaking some universal law, such as the examples I mentioned. Basically, if you come across a reference in a story to a leader losing a right side body part, or being deformed on the right side, the storyteller is sending a clear sign that the character is now willing to use guile rather than a strictly legitimate exercise of power and authority to do his will.

Examples:
Tyr
Odin
Tezcatlipoca
Ehud
Lug

 

[ScottySatan]

When you said it first, I got the impression that you meant that someone of the LHP consistently breaks the rules as a matter of principle, not just once, not just at decisive moments.

 

[Kori Houghton]

When you said it first, I got the impression that you meant that someone of the LHP consistently breaks the rules as a matter of principle, not just once, not just at decisive moments.

I think any kind of consistency regarding "rules" -- be they laws or universal principles -- puts you in the box.

Myth and legend give examples of characters who break rules at decisive moments, and also Tricksters who do it almost seemingly at whim. And everything in between.

I think almost everyone associated with the LHP disagrees with me on this one, but I find the myths and legends about gods, heroes, and kings breaking rules significant. To me, they are LHP archetypes that show how the LHP is not merely a spiritual exercise the individual undertakes for self-improvement, but rather an exchange between powerful beings and their societies, their rivals, and Destiny.

 

[ScottySatan]

I think any kind of consistency regarding "rules" -- be they laws or universal principles -- puts you in the box.

The vow to break a rule is just a different rule, isn't it? This is what I was trying to communicate when I said here that I don't like the term "left hand path" because of its implications.

 

[doppelganger]

Everything that happens/has happened/will happen is the natural order.

 

[Adramelek]

The very ability to contemplate and formulate the sentence "I think, therefore, I Am" is proof that we are self-aware beings. It is also this sense of Self which gives us the power of willful creative identity i.e., "Black Magic"; the skill to cause creation and/or destruction utilizing our abstract sense of the self-aware psyche and our six senses - sound, sight, smell, taste, touch, abstract philosophy of the self-aware mind, i.e. "the sense of hightened intellect."

What I meant to say in this last part was the "five other senses - sound, sight, smell, taste, touch." The Self/sentience being the sixth sense. Duh, my bad.

 

[Adramelek]

There is a kind of irony here. When we Magically alter or cause change to occur within the objective universe, when we create, these new creations or alterations automatically become part of the new Universal stasis no matter how consequential or minute the change.

When that which has become mankind was artificially infused with the sense of Self/psyche-centric awareness, the greatest act of Black Magic ever performed upon this Earth, it became a unique part of our very "nature". Henceforth, because of this act, Magically, man will stand apart as something unique and seperate from the rest of the natural order.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[Drax]

Most people who classify themselves as LHP are generally just like everyone else. They claim an individualist philosophy built on rebellion/non-conformity yet fail to fully embrace the destructive force of the Satan archetype/being.

This is a simple list of philosophies I hold. Actually doing the things listed is self destructive. Do not read these if you are of a weak mindset.


First - Morality is limiting, smash it!
Second - If it disgusts you, embrace it!
Third - If you are obsessed with it, pursue your obsession!
Forth - If it hurts, seek more of it!
Fifth - Doubt is vile, exalt it!
Sixth - Everyone is a hypocrite!
Seventh - War is growth, peace is stagnation!
Eighth - Anyone can cast off tyranny, defeat the perceived bad guy and walk perfectly upright as a result with no hindrance of motion. Do the opposite! Embrace tyranny as it crushes you to dust!
Ninth - What we call self is a lie, destroy it!

 

[Kori Houghton]

Most people who classify themselves as LHP are generally just like everyone else. They claim an individualist philosophy built on rebellion/non-conformity yet fail to fully embrace the destructive force of the Satan archetype/being.

The people who claim that their LHP is as you describe above are following a trail laid down in the 1960s as a counter to the goals of various protest movements in the West. The result was to spread the idea -- or meme -- that the individual was more powerful and more important than any group could be, and the more you could isolate yourself from your peers except to compete with them, the higher you ranked on some fabricated scale of human superiority. Most of the talk about "non-conformity" by this type of LHP is just that...talk.

It is not required to embrace, or even think about, the Satan archetype to be LHP.

This is a simple list of philosophies I hold. Actually doing the things listed is self destructive. Do not read these if you are of a weak mindset.


First - Morality is limiting, smash it!
Second - If it disgusts you, embrace it!
Third - If you are obsessed with it, pursue your obsession!
Forth - If it hurts, seek more of it!
Fifth - Doubt is vile, exalt it!
Sixth - Everyone is a hypocrite!
Seventh - War is growth, peace is stagnation!
Eighth - Anyone can cast off tyranny, defeat the perceived bad guy and walk perfectly upright as a result with no hindrance of motion. Do the opposite! Embrace tyranny as it crushes you to dust!
Ninth - What we call self is a lie, destroy it!

Actually, I think a lot of people do or think most of these things at some point in their lives. Satanists or not, LHP or not. Sometimes the consequence is self-destructive, sometimes not.

 

[Drax]

Kori, right again! Satanism is not the only path which leads to this type of growth. However, it is a convenient label. When I find something more fitting, I will use it. For now, Satanism is an acceptable umbrella term.

As for the maxims, if you embrace all of them as they stand; it is my belief the result will be destructive (though as I perceive destruction and in as many variations).

 

[Hagbard]

In hearing the talk of stepping outside of "nature" I am always reminded of a talk given by R.A.W. in which he explains that man, being a part of nature, can never do anything that is outside of nature. Any thing that a human being can do is just as natural as a cat killing a bird, or rain falling, or any other "natural" thing we could point to.
I have never quite agreed with the idea that human consciousness and sense of individual self is unique or unnatural.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

There is the nomos/orthodoxy and then there is the heterodox/antinomian. The LHP, historically is simply a method of gaining gnosis through the latter praxis. All else is simply form.