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Featured God's will is clear in the Bible?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by PopeADope, Oct 6, 2018.

  1. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    It is precisely when we look at some of them within their own context that we find them to be contradictory, for example Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 states;

    “For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun.”

    If the dead have no further reward, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun (ie on earth) then there can be no ressurrection of the dead according to this verse in it's correct context.
     
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  2. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    God's will is as clear to us as Eve's view before she took the fruit.

    God's will is as clear to us as the four differing gospels of his Son.
     
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  3. 'mud

    'mud ~~ Life is Stuff ~~
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    `God's` son never wrote anything !
     
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  4. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Yes. It's problematic because if the landowner were moral, he wouldn't just sit on his behind and allow his workers to get all worked up. They were attacking precisely because he didn't want to do his job but still wanted his cut.

    It's a lot like the prodigal son: let's never ask why the father raised such an ignorant spoiled brat. No, let's focus on the son. The father never had to give the inheritance cut to a spoiled brat. He could've looked for his child come rain, snow, sleet, or shine, like the Good Shepherd is supposed to do.

    It's a lot like the king who got mad no one wanted to come to his buffet: how's about fixing what's wrong in your country? People have needs and a self-congratulatory photo op doesn't help things.

    Most people just take the account's word at what the parable means, but the problem is that the authors say that Jesus didn't think the apostles understood him, so their conclusions could be way off.

    Did the vineyard's son wake back up 3 days later?

    Yeah, but we're talking about a literary character who IS known for micromanagement unless He's just not into it at the moment.

    What's to stop an omnipotent and omnipresent being from going to hell? Even gods could go to the underworld in many religions.

    According to the Baal cycle, Yah(weh) and Baal Hadad killed each other on multiple occasions (because they were tied to seasonal stuff). Even Mot, God of Death, was slain at one point.

    Why is there a place where God doesn't extend His grace? Is there a quota? Does He have grace until His MP reaches 0 or something?

    Why is God such a hypocrite that my soul partly depends on my loving my enemies, but God can get away with hating the entire population of hell?

    Except everyone who did. Even Jesus says the pure in heart can see God. If no one's pure, why bring it up?

    Giant bulls held up a large cauldron or whatever it was. And the bull was the animal associated with El, Yah's Daddy (or in law, depending on the story). Even when El was portrayed as human-looking, His crown had bull horns on it in some versions.

    Oh, and welcome, btw.

    And later the bible mentions it was destroyed because people were worshiping it. It's like how Christians argue the serpent is a metaphor for the crucifix, which people will also bow and kneel before.

    The rule was about making them. No one was worshiping images on coins either, but that didn't stop massive protests when Romans or whatever put human images on the coins and banners and such.

    It's not, really.

    God, as portrayed in the bible, at least, is the epitome of "do as I say and not as I do".

    I prefer to just read it myself.
     
  5. lioncub1503

    lioncub1503 Seven ate nine

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    “There is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave [“Sheol,” footnote], where you are going.” -Ecclesiastes 9:10

    These verses, when referring to knowledge and knowing, simply says that when a person dies they cease to exist, for they have no consciousness. To resurrect is to bring back to life, and to be resurrected a person would need to be dead first. We believe that this scripture shows the condition of the dead, however it does not say that a person cannot be brought back to life, only that when you die you do not have any consciousness. We believe that we will stay in this state of non-existance until God resurrects us, if he will at all.

    When you mention about “done under the sun”, when you are dead you can not longer walk about the Earth, because you are quite obviously dead. We think that this is what this phrase is referring to, and I don’t really understand how this could be proof of the bible contradicting itself. If you died, you cannot work on this Earth, and if God brought you back to life in the future, then you can. Everyone knows that dead people do not walk about the Earth at the moment (unless you believe in reincarnation or other similar beliefs ), and the verse is simply stating this.

    Again, with reward, isn’t it talking about when you are dead, you then cannot be rewarded, for example you cannot receive any money or gifts. Another translation for reward of a similar meaning is “wage”. I see where you are coming from, for do you view a reward as being brought back to life? The verse specifically mentions the dead having no reward, so while you are dead you cannot be rewarded, or receive your “wage”. If you were to be brought back to life, then you are no longer dead, and can receive your “reward” of life everlasting. I think that this is talking about how once you are dead, the money and worldly achievements you may have accumulated do not matter, and it is only God that can reward you as he is the one with the power to resurrected people.

    Interesting, did you use our translation (new world translation)?
     
  6. lioncub1503

    lioncub1503 Seven ate nine

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    (Thank you!)

    Where was this in the bible please? I think I need a memory transplant...

    We don’t use a cross because we view it as a form of idolatry. I’m not sure what the snake being a metaphor of Jesus has to do with God making idols? Or was your point that people worship it? We don’t wear, have them in our Kingdom Hall or even have it in pictures because of the issue of idolatry. Be believe he died on a stake, not a cross, anyway :)

    When the people started to worship the snake, God condemned them, and the King of the time crushed the snake. The point being, it wasn’t intended to be an idol, but when it became one, it was destroyed. For example, I could order a kettle. It’s perpose was to make tea. Later, I might really start to love this tea it makes. If I wanted, I could started worshiping the kettle, but this isn’t the fault of the designer.

    I’m sorry, what do you mean? Is this in the bible or a historical event?
     
  7. 'mud

    'mud ~~ Life is Stuff ~~
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    Just considering,
    Was isn't a crucifix considered an idol ?
     
  8. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Its not cleat why believers should care. Is there a little chance that His will will not be enforced?

    If not relax. There is nothing we can do, anyway.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
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  9. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Ok :)
     
  10. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    El (deity) - Wikipedia

    Baal Cycle - Wikipedia

    Solomon's Temple - Wikipedia (look at the pic)
    (the Molten Sea section goes into more detail)

    Good for you. :)

    If I didn't view it as idolatry, I'd think religious merchandise is still crass and beneath one's dignity. I don't mean things like copies of sacred texts (though it's easily placed before God in importance), but the silly stuff you might buy at a Christian gift shop or something. Just seems wrong to make some knick knack, claim Jesus, but you're the one making the money.
    edit: I realize I might be guilty of hypocrisy, as I've written a book about Satan and I guess it's crass too, but only one person has bought it, so I haven't even received any money yet (because it has to be above a certain amount to get paid).

    Still, I believe artistry is a God-given talent, so it also seems wrong to look down on such a gift.

    I know. That's why I think we should put the cross in a similar vein. Or the fish one. Symbols were used at first to determine group identity when everyone was on the down-low due to persecution. It's a highly popular religion now and is essentially worthless when it comes to spiritual growth anyway.

    I believe at least a couple of protests against Pilate are mentioned in the bible.
     
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  11. lioncub1503

    lioncub1503 Seven ate nine

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    This still, however, does not mention worship, only statues. And many gods are associated with most, if not all, animals, so any animal that was sacrificed would have some accidental link to a god and goodness, especially the more common animals.

    “25 It stood upon twelve oxen, three looking toward the north, and three looking toward the west, and three looking toward the south, and three looking toward the east: and the sea was set above upon them, and all their hinder parts were inward.” 1 Kings 3:25 (Wikipedia)

    I think that some people feel that it helps them remember God, and identifies them as a Christian, but as I have never worn one I would not know. I would prefer to be identified by my actions, although everyone has their own preferences.

    Pilate “sent Roman soldiers bearing standards with images of the emperor on them into Jerusalem at night. This move provoked great resentment; a delegation of Jews traveled to Caesarea to protest the presence of the standards and call for their removal.” -from JW Watchtower Online Library, from Jewish Antiquities, XVIII, 55-59 (iii, 1).

    I think the point is that the Jews were protesting against Roman rule because this was quite a touchy subject and they were quite prideful because they thought themselves to be God’s chosen people, not because of idolatry. Remember, at this time Christ has come so we don’t believe that the Israelites are the “true” nation anymore.

    (Also, ever wonder why a fitness stretching type is named after, or at least has the same name, as a Roman leader? Now I’m thinking, probably not)
     
    #51 lioncub1503, Oct 9, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
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