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God's Preoccupation With Fornication

Skwim

Veteran Member
First of all a definition of "fornication."

for·ni·ca·tion

ˌfôrnəˈkāSH(ə)n/
noun
formalhumorous
noun: fornication; plural noun: fornications
sexual intercourse between people not married to each other.
If one is wondering if adultery is the same as fornication, we have this from the Merriam Webster Dictionary.

" Adultery is only used when at least one of the parties involved (either male or female) is married, whereas fornication may be used to describe two people who are unmarried (to each other or anyone else) engaging in consensual sexual intercourse."
Moreover, in several of the quoted verses below god distinguishes between adultery and fornication
Okay, that out of the way, take a look at where god speaks of fornication in the Bible (I've only taken a single representative example from each of 10 different books. There are many others.)

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee fornication. Every other sin which a man doeth is outside the body, but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

Colossians 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

Acts 15:20
But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Mark 7:21
For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

Galatians 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Revelation 21:8
But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Hebrews 13:4
Let marriage be had in honor among all, and let the bed be undefiled: for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

Jude 7
even as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, in like manner giving themselves over to fornication and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Not a nice thing this fornication, and obviously something god feels very strong about.

But recall what fornication is: consensual intercourse between unmarried people, and not to be purposely graphic, but consider what sexual intercourse is: the mere insertion of a penis into a vagina. So, why, one has to ask, is such an act so horrific? To repeat, it is ONLY the insertion of a penis into a vagina. It doesn't hurt anyone, and in fact, produces quite a bit of pleasure.
Let me ask, do you feel sexual intercourse between a husband and wife is sinful? How about bad? Or how about gross? If you do then you're in a very small minority. In any case, I think it's fair to conclude that sexual intercourse itself isn't bad, so it must be the circumstances that turn it from non-bad (good, welcomed, desirable) into a sin. And such a horrific sin that god can't let go of it, but must remind people of its immorality time after time and chapter upon chapter in his Bible.

So, what do you perceive to be god's huge problem with "having sex" while unmarried? Of course it may lead to pregnancy, but is that bad enough to consider it a sin? And because women eventually reach an age where they're incapable of becoming pregnant certainly this would eliminate the reason.

So, what is it? God purposely creates man, and woman, with this crazy lust for sexual intercourse, yet tells them that if you don't get married you gotta keep your legs crossed for the rest of your life. How much better, and fairer, it would have been if he didn't set the sex-lust reaction into motion until all the "I dos" were said.

In closing, and to make the point of my thread clear let me repeat my question,

What is god's huge problem with fornication, the insertion of a penis into a vagina, while unmarried?
Any guesses?

.
 
Last edited:

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
First of all a definition of "fornication."

for·ni·ca·tion

ˌfôrnəˈkāSH(ə)n/
noun
formalhumorous
noun: fornication; plural noun: fornications
sexual intercourse between people not married to each other.
If one is wondering if adultery is the same as fornication, we have this from the Merriam Webster Dictionary.

" Adultery is only used when at least one of the parties involved (either male or female) is married, whereas fornication may be used to describe two people who are unmarried (to each other or anyone else) engaging in consensual sexual intercourse."
Moreover, in several of the quoted verses below god distinguishes between adultery and fornication
Okay, that out of the way, take a look at where god speaks of fornication in the Bible (I've only taken a single representative example from each of 10 different chapters. There are many others.)

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee fornication. Every other sin which a man doeth is outside the body, but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

Colossians 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

Acts 15:20
But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Mark 7:21
For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

Galatians 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Revelation 21:8
But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Hebrews 13:4
Let marriage be had in honor among all, and let the bed be undefiled: for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

Jude 7
even as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, in like manner giving themselves over to fornication and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Not a nice thing this fornication, and obviously something god feels is a god-awful sin of the flesh.

But recall what fornication is: consensual intercourse between unmarried people, and not to be purposely graphic, but consider what sexual intercourse is: the mere insertion of a penis into a vagina. So, why, one has to ask, is such an act so horrific? To repeat, it is ONLY the mere insertion of a penis into a vagina. It does hurt anyone, and in fact, produces quite a bit of pleasure.
Let me ask, do you feel sexual intercourse between a husband and wife is sinful? How about bad? Or how about gross? If you do then you're in a very small minority. In any case, I think it's fair to conclude that sexual intercourse itself isn't bad, so it must be the circumstances that turn it from non-bad (good, welcomed, desirable) into a sin. And such a horrific sin that god can't let go of it, but must remind people of its immorality time after time and chapter upon chapter in his Bible.

So, what do you perceive to be god's huge problem with "having sex" while unmarried? Of course it may lead to pregnancy, but is that bad enough to consider it a sin? And because women eventually reach an age where they're incapable of becoming pregnant certainly it would eliminate this reason.

So, what is it? God purposely creates man, and woman, with this crazy lust for sexual intercourse, yet tells them that if you don't get married you gotta keep your legs crossed for the rest of your life. How much better, and fairer, it would have been if he didn't set the sex-lust reaction into motion until all the "I dos" were said.

In closing, and to make the point of my thread clear let me repeat my question,

What is god's huge problem with fornication, the insertion of a penis into a vagina, while unmarried?
Any guesses?

.
I'm not sure who it actually is who is preoccupied.

I think it is more about the consequences of it. You know, STD, gonorrhea, syphilis, abortions, single parents, poverty and things like this.

Are you for all of the consequences?
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure who it actually is who is preoccupied.

I think it is more about the consequences of it. You know, STD, gonorrhea, syphilis, abortions, single parents, poverty and things like this.

Are you for all of the consequences?

Those are not direct consequences of premarital sex, because all of them can be avoided even when having premarital sex. Instead, they are results of irresponsibility and lack of communication between partners, and can happen in or outside of marriage. A big problem with the teaching that sex should only take place between married people is that it inevitably leads to young religious people who desire sex to rush into marriage before they are ready, simply because they want to have sex but are told that it's wrong to have sex while being unmarried. I personally know people who have had this very thing happen. A young, devoutly religious couple getting married too young because they wanted to have sex, and then the marriage ending in divorce. Much more logical to know everything about your partner (including sexuality of course) before signing a legally binding contract with them.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Those are not direct consequences of premarital sex, because all of them can be avoided even when having premarital sex.

So all of these things don't happen because of pre-marital sex? People who remain married to one person and don't commit fornication get these problems too?
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
So all of these things don't happen because of pre-marital sex? People who remain married to one person and don't commit fornication get these problems too?

As I said before, they are not *direct consequences* of premarital sex, so no, they do not happen because of premarital sex. Many unmarried couples engage in sex without those problems occurring, and some married couples certainly do experience those problems. So, no, they are not a result of pre-marital sex, but instead are a result of irresponsibility, lack of planning ahead, and lack of communication.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
As I said before, they are not *direct consequences* of premarital sex, so no, they do not happen because of premarital sex.
In that they basically don't happen to people who don't have premarital sex, I would disagree that it isn't a direct consequence.
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
In that they basically don't happen to people who don't have premarital sex, I would disagree that it isn't a direct consequence.

I already pointed out to you that those problems do not happen to everyone who engages in premarital sex. In fact, they only happen to a small subset of them. So, of course it is not a direct consequence of premarital sex. They are problems that can be prevented through responsibility, communication, and planning ahead, and when the right precautions are taken, one can easily have premarital sex without the consequences you mentioned.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I'm not sure who it actually is who is preoccupied.

I think it is more about the consequences of it. You know, STD, gonorrhea, syphilis, abortions, single parents, poverty and things like this.

Are you for all of the consequences?
You mean STD, gonorrhea, syphilis all go away when one gets married? WOW! ..........And married women never get abortions WOW! ..........And everyone who has sex outside of marriage ends up pregnant? WOW! .......... And people who have sex outside of marriage live in poverty? WOW! ......... ........... You one kinda smart fella.

.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I already pointed out to you that those problems do not happen to everyone who engages in premarital sex. In fact, they only happen to a small subset of them. So, of course it is not a direct consequence of premarital sex. They are problems that can be prevented through responsibility, communication, and planning ahead, and when the right precautions are taken, one can easily have premarital sex without the consequences you mentioned.

There are people who took the right precautions and got pregnant. There are people who took the right precautions and still got STD.

So I will have to disagree.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I already pointed out to you that those problems do not happen to everyone who engages in premarital sex. In fact, they only happen to a small subset of them. So, of course it is not a direct consequence of premarital sex. They are problems that can be prevented through responsibility, communication, and planning ahead, and when the right precautions are taken, one can easily have premarital sex without the consequences you mentioned.
FYI, stop banging your head. It never gets any better. ;)

.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
You mean STD, gonorrhea, syphilis all go away when one gets married? WOW! ..........And married women never get abortions WOW! ..........And everyone who has sex outside of marriage ends up pregnant? WOW! .......... And people who have sex outside of marriage live in poverty? WOW! ......... ........... You one smart fella.

.
WOWSER!

You are VERY creative at changing what was said and putting things in my mouth that I NEVER said.

:shrug:

very creative! :D
And by your response... I think it is you that is more worried about what is written than God :D
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
There are people who took the right precautions and got pregnant. There are people who took the right precautions and still got STD.

So I will have to disagree.

Of course there are. But abstinence-only, or "wait-till-marriage" sex education does more harm than good. Studies have shown that young people are just as likely to have sex before marriage if they are taught "abstinence only" as they are if they are taught about contraception and pregnancy prevention. With honest sex ed, at least kids learn how to drastically reduce their chances of these problems if they do have sex, rather than teaching them that abstinence is the only way to prevent pregnancy/STDs. So, I'd blame a big percentage of the problems you mentioned on abstinence-only education. Statistically, young people are in general going to have sex before marriage no matter what, so they might as well learn the proper prevention techniques. BTW, why would you sign a legally binding lifetime contract with someone whom you don't know everything about? I couldn't imagine getting married to someone without knowing if I were sexually compatible with her or not.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Of course there are. But abstinence-only, or "wait-till-marriage" sex education does more harm than good. Studies have shown that young people are just as likely to have sex before marriage if they are taught "abstinence only" as they are if they are taught about contraception and pregnancy prevention. With honest sex ed, at least kids learn how to drastically reduce their chances of these problems if they do have sex, rather than teaching them that abstinence is the only way to prevent pregnancy/STDs. So, I'd blame a big percentage of the problems you mentioned on abstinence-only education. Statistically, young people are in general going to have sex before marriage no matter what, so they might as well learn the proper prevention techniques. BTW, why would you sign a legally binding lifetime contract with someone whom you don't know everything about? I couldn't imagine getting married to someone without knowing if I were sexually compatible with her or not.
I disagree :D

I taught my children to wait until they were married. They had GREAT teenage years, according to them. They waited for the right person and now they are happily married.

I propose that the studies are flawed and were made by those who wanted to promote free sex compounding the problems of STD.

As far as sexually compatible... show me one man that shows up with a naked woman and they can't be "compatible". Unless, maybe, one is into kinky... but those people usually are having multiple relationships.
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
I disagree :D

I taught my children to wait until they were married. They had GREAT teenage years, according to them. They waited for the right person and now they are happily married.

I propose that the studies are flawed and were made by those who wanted to promote free sex compounding the problems of STD.

As far as sexually compatible... show me one man that shows up with a naked woman and they can't be "compatible". Unless, maybe, one is into kinky... but those people usually are having multiple relationships.

I understand that your according to your religious values, one should wait until marriage for sex, and I have no problem if that's what you teach your children. You certainly have the right to do that. But I think being honest with kids is important. I think it's a mistake to make it sound as if there are no ways to prevent STDs/unwanted pregnancies other than abstinence. So, I don't have a problem with Christians teaching their personal values to their children, but what I see as a problem is not teaching them that there are methods that can be used to reduce the chance of STDs and pregnancies.

Sexual compatibility is more of an issue than you think. What if one partner has a much higher sex drive than the other? This can be a problem, and should be an issue that is sorted out BEFORE signing a legally binding contract.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So, what is it? God purposely creates man, and woman, with this crazy lust for sexual intercourse, yet tells them that if you don't get married you gotta keep your legs crossed for the rest of your life. How much better, and fairer, it would have been if he didn't set the sex-lust reaction into motion until all the "I dos" were said.

In closing, and to make the point of my thread clear let me repeat my question,

What is god's huge problem with fornication, the insertion of a penis into a vagina, while unmarried?
Any guesses?.

I don't know if there is an entity called "God," and I have no idea why God would have an issue with fornication. However, there might be reasons why humans, particularly human governments or other ruling institutions, would have a preoccupation with it all.

It's probably some way of controlling the people. As the saying goes, when you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow. By controlling where, when, how, and with whom humans are allowed to have sex, that will keep them in line.

Some of it may also have had to do with their family's wishes, particularly when it comes to deciding who might end up with the family inheritance. They only wanted approved offspring from people they approved of.

Of course, people still fornicated just the same, but they could still be forgiven if they confessed their sin, did penance, and properly discarded or shunned any offspring which resulted from an unapproved dalliance.

Or, sometimes a shotgun wedding would be enough to even the score.

shotgun-wedding-2948662.png
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
WOWSER!

You are VERY creative at changing what was said and putting things in my mouth that I NEVER said.

:shrug:

very creative! :D
And by your response... I think it is you that is more worried about what is written than God :D
facepalm-smiley-emoticon.gif
Went right over your head didn't it. Oh well. *sigh*


.


.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
facepalm-smiley-emoticon.gif
Went right over your head didn't it. Oh well. *sigh*

.
Not at all... :D you just embellished and created your own version.

I didn't think you really wanted to discuss the subject anyway :D
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
WOWSER!

You are VERY creative at changing what was said and putting things in my mouth that I NEVER said.

:shrug:

very creative! :D
And by your response... I think it is you that is more worried about what is written than God :D
That is exactly what you did. It is rather amazing that you can see when people do that to your posts but you can't see when you do it to others.
 
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