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God's People Isaiah 56:3-5
- Thread starter Fool
- Start date
Sadly, your rhetorical question wobbles somewhere between sloppy and disingenuous.
Why not simply state your position and then tell us why you think some brief snippet from Trito-Isaiah is relevant?
Didn't know Isaiah had a Greek name like Yochanan-Hyrcanus...
74x12
Well-Known Member
It's within the heart that matters. The circumcision made with hands is nothing to God; if your heart is far from God he can't be fooled. When God gave Abraham the sign of circumcision it was because he already knew Abraham's faith and his heart was right.
not really given the fact judah was named based on a behavior and not a birthright. god threatens more than once to destroy the israelites for their bad behavior. in fact every book basically talks about negative behaviors vs positive behaviors.
being called a jew didn't save certain characters from destruction.
god is first a verb and then a noun
exodus 3:14
so in order to be godly, you have to act it and not call yourself or someone else by it
behavior is everything. labeling something doesn't really express its character, its personality, let alone its worth
every tom, dick, and harry doesn't behave the same
so Isaiah has evidently expressed the idea that being labeled, or born as a jew doesn't exclusively make you one of god's besties.
that behavior is more important than ethnicity, birthright.
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So, you're here to spread the message that being a Jew is not all important. I'm sure there's absolutely nothing antisemitic about such a noble campaign.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Sorry, but no. Nor does your quote show it to be so--a foreigner who attaches himself to the Lord is basically a convert, someone who has become part of the People of Israel and is no longer a non-Jew.
So basically if you are a non-Jew, you can keep all of the 613 laws, you can go to synagogue every Shabbat, you can eat gefilte fish and drink Manischewitz and throw around Yiddish tidbits left and right, and you are still not a Jew.
A Jew is someone who is either born of a Jewish mother, or who has undergone a lawful conversion.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
That is just not always true. I can be a non-racist and be the friend of many blacks, but I bet you that if I crossed the line and started saying I was black because I acted black or because I had a black heart, they would take considerable offense.
74x12
Well-Known Member
It's very complicated I think. Would all black people be offended by this?
74x12
Well-Known Member
What is a Jew to you? Someone who is racially a Jew or religiously a Jew? I know that the word Jew is used for both.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
There is only one kind of Jew, and that is someone who is a part of the People of Israel. The easiest way to be part of our tribal people is simply to be born a Jew, to be the child of a Jewish mom. But there are those adopted into the Children of Israel via a lawful conversion -- these start out their lives as non-Jews, but finish their lives just as Jewish as anyone born of a Jewish mom. Once you understand that our Jewish identity is a tribal identity, the pieces fall into place. Yes, we have our religion (our covenant). But not all members of the tribe follow the covenant. They are still members of the tribe, however.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
If you could somehow find a rare exceptional black who didn't give a hoot, would that excuse insulting the rest?
74x12
Well-Known Member
Do you understand why Esau wasn't a Jew?
74x12
Well-Known Member
I think that many would not be offended. It's not very offensive in my opinion even if I put myself in their shoes. Although IF I were to tell black people that they are not black because x, y, z then that would be offensive. I'll give you that.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Yes. Do you think Jews dont know our own Torah?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I think you'd be in for a very big shock. It would take a great deal of chutzpah on your part to make the claim, as if you could possibly relate to how it actually is to be black. I'll say no more.
74x12
Well-Known Member
Then why wasn't the twin brother of Jacob counted as a Jew?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Because the covenant did not go through him. You haven't read Genesis? Do I need to provide a summary of the story? Or are you already familiar with it?