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Featured God's Name as Opposed to his Titles

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Deeje, Jan 5, 2018.

  1. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    There is such thing as collective unconscious. It is the system that is set up to elevate human consciousness.
    E.g. take slavery, was a common event no it is against human consciousness = collective consciousness deems it wrong and unacceptable. Bible, theological treatise, mainly dedicated to elevating human consciousness.
    Bible begins explaining the state of human consciousness in the story of Cain and Abel - Cain murders his brother and states " Am I my brother’s keeper?” - this is main issue why physical world came about to cure Ego. To take consciousness from Cain level to Christ level. Next we see Sons of Israel almost killed their brother Joseph and sold him into slavery. Story ends Sons of Israel gained brotherly love. Why Sons of Israel were sent to Egypt - because of 42 principles of Maat and they reflected in the Law. The purpose of the Law :
    " For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings."
    Hosea 6:6 - i.e. fostering mercy - new level of human consciousness to eventually have Christ Consciousness - The Golden Rule.
     
  2. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    Very informative thread Deeje. Thank you.;)
     
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  3. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Sky Daddy Deluxe
     
  4. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Ok, not unconscious but conscious. If I understand you, you are saying that a low level is to ask "Am I my brother's keeper," and a higher level is the Golden Rule. You refer to the story of Joseph and 42 principles of Maat (which I know nothing about -- sorry). This reminds me of a passage in 2Peter 1:5 where there is a list of things that he says to improve upon to avoid being ineffective, and he mentions eight things. I imagine he is speaking similarly to you. Its unclear however, because maybe you are talking about thousands of years of the Earth's time. He is talking about more rapid improvement I think or perhaps generational improvement.

    So is this Golden Rule called an emanation?
     
  5. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    1. I have not committed sin.
    2. I have not committed robbery with violence.
    3. I have not stolen.
    4. I have not slain men or women.
    5. I have not stolen food.
    6. I have not swindled offerings.
    7. I have not stolen from God/Goddess.
    8. I have not told lies.
    9. I have not carried away food.
    10. I have not cursed.
    11. I have not closed my ears to truth.
    12. I have not committed adultery.
    13. I have not made anyone cry.
    14. I have not felt sorrow without reason.
    15. I have not assaulted anyone.
    16. I am not deceitful.
    17. I have not stolen anyone’s land.
    18. I have not been an eavesdropper.
    19. I have not falsely accused anyone.
    20. I have not been angry without reason.
    21. I have not seduced anyone’s wife.
    22. I have not polluted myself.
    23. I have not terrorized anyone.
    24. I have not disobeyed the Law.
    25. I have not been exclusively angry.
    26. I have not cursed God/Goddess.
    27. I have not behaved with violence.
    28. I have not caused disruption of peace.
    29. I have not acted hastily or without thought.
    30. I have not overstepped my boundaries of concern.
    31. I have not exaggerated my words when speaking.
    32. I have not worked evil.
    33. I have not used evil thoughts, words or deeds.
    34. I have not polluted the water.
    35. I have not spoken angrily or arrogantly.
    36. I have not cursed anyone in thought, word or deeds.
    37. I have not placed myself on a pedestal.
    38. I have not stolen what belongs to God/Goddess.
    39. I have not stolen from or disrespected the deceased.
    40. I have not taken food from a child.
    41. I have not acted with insolence.
    42. I have not destroyed property belonging to God/Goddess
    42 principles of Maat that brought Sons of Israel to Egypt were passed onto the rest of the World in a form of Commandments of Moses with intention to foster respect for our fellow human beings.
    Collective unconscious - Wikipedia imo, the tool that helps us to move up on the ladder o evolution of consciousness.
     
  6. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    I don’t see why we don’t refer to God as YHWH, if that is how he specified it to be.
    However, I’m not sure it matters what we call him.
    I would guess he might have hundreds of names to people all over the world. He knows what we mean, the words are meaningless to Him, IMO.

    Also, on that subject, why do Christians say Jesus for Yeshua?
    If you were back there at that time and were following Him around town, and you yelled Jesus, I can’t imagine he would respond.
    That was not his name. It’s a translation of a translation of His name. And even the retranslated translation into latin didn’t have the J ot U until many centuries later.
    If I go to a foreign country I tell people my name as it is. If they need to change it for some reason, so be it, but I still use the original. It’s not so hard in my opinion to use Yeshua or YHWH, but like I said, I really don’t think God cares. His connection is spiritual, our words are of no concern to Him.

    However, I am aware of what Peter said in Acts 4:12.
    Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved."
    Peter obviously did not refer to the name Jesus since that name did not exist in that place at that time.
     
  7. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Yeshua H3444 Salvation

    Yehoshua H3091 Lord that Saves

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  8. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Which is the very point for those who believe that Jesus is God (which I don't)

    If you are going to balk over saying the Father's name in English, why not balk over the name of his son if you think they are one and the same "God"?

    I see the same superstitious aversion to vowels in the way Jewish people write G-d. Why omit the vowel? What does that accomplish exactly? Who told you that was appropriate? Why did the Bible writers use God's name so freely, with no hyphens?

    Judges 6:13...."And Gideon said to him, "Please my lord, if the Lord be with us, why then has all this befallen us? And where are all His wonders which our forefathers told us, saying, 'Did not the Lord bring us up from Egypt?' But now the Lord has forsaken us, and He has delivered us into the hand of Midian."

    יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר אֵלָ֚יו גִּדְעוֹן֙ בִּ֣י אֲדֹנִ֔י וְיֵ֚שׁ יְהֹוָה֙ עִמָּ֔נוּ וְלָ֥מָּה מְצָאַ֖תְנוּ כָּל־זֹ֑את וְאַיֵּ֣ה כָֽל־נִפְלְאֹתָ֡יו אֲשֶׁר֩ סִפְּרוּ־לָ֨נוּ אֲבוֹתֵ֜ינוּ לֵאמֹ֗ר הֲלֹ֚א מִמִּצְרַ֙יִם֙ הֶעֱלָ֣נוּ יְהֹוָ֔ה וְעַתָּה֙ נְטָשָׁ֣נוּ יְהֹוָ֔ה וַֽיִּתְּנֵ֖נוּ בְּכַף־מִדְיָֽן:

    If God's ancient servants had no fear of using God's name, then why did the later religious leaders substitute the divine name with a title? There is no Biblical precedent for this. Nowhere does scripture say that God's name is too sacred to be uttered.

    If it is against God's law to 'take his name in vain', what do you think that means? If what you do (your actions) brings reproach on God's name and reputation, (as people know that you claim to be one of his people) then omitting the name does not relieve you of the guilt. This is a classic example of 'straining at the gnat but swallowing down the camel'.

    Simply removing the name does not mean that you can sin with impunity. This is observing the 'letter of the law' without discerning the reason for it, or the spirit behind it. God's law does not have 'loopholes'. God's worship is not about performance, but about willing obedience to all of his commands from the heart.

    It isn't a problem for us. It is only a problem for those who have invalid reasons for avoiding the name that God gave to himself as his memorial for all generations to come.

    "And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.
    טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:
    (Exodus 3:15 CJB)

    Haven't Jews broken that command? No generation of Jews hold to that directive....do they? So why is that the case...can you tell me?

    Well, in a room full of men who are all fathers, and a lost child enters and calls out "Daddy!".....who alone is going to go to that child and embrace him? Titles do not always address the right individual. How many in the military are addressed by the title "Sir"? How many judges answer to "Your Honor"? If, as the Bible says, there are other gods and lords, (albeit false ones) then the title "God" or "Lord" does not address YHWH exclusively.....does it? It is his name that makes him unique.

    The books of child names convey their meaning and some people choose a name based on its meaning...others just like the name regardless of its meaning. I don't think that there are very many exclusively "English" names anyway.

    According to Wiki...."English is a West Germanic language that originated from Anglo-Frisian dialects brought to Britain in the mid 5th to 7th centuries AD by Germanic invaders and settlers from what is now northwest Germany, west Denmark and the Netherlands, displacing the Celtic languages that previously predominated."

    Our English Calendar has the names of days and months dedicated to Norse gods mainly. When Pope Gregory changed the calendar in 1582, he did not get rid of the pagan gods for some reason......how very Christian of him....:rolleyes:

    The Jewish calendar is the best one. :)
     
    #28 Deeje, Jan 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
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  9. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    He does give his name several times. (Isaiah 42:8; Exodus 6:3)

    Psalm 83:18 (CJB)
    "Let them know that You-Your name alone is the Lord, Most High over all the earth.
    יטוְיֵֽדְע֗וּ כִּי־אַתָּ֬ה שִׁמְךָ֣ יְהֹוָ֣ה לְבַדֶּ֑ךָ עֶ֜לְי֗וֹן עַל־כָּל־הָאָֽרֶץ:"


    His name is not "The Lord"....his name is יְהֹוָ֣ה YHWH, in English translated as Yahweh or Jehovah.

    Exodus 3:15...."And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.
    טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר"


    This was to be his name "forever". How long is forever?

    Jews have the divine name in the text of their scripture but refuse to speak it. Their reference to God is often HaShem (השם‬) which means "The Name". Avoiding saying it follows no directive of God....but a superstition of men.
     
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  10. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Yahweh or Jehovah is not in my bible. I don't think he ever said his name. He left it at I AM.
     
  11. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    It is not at all clear to me but shucks, I'm jus a 72 year old Jew. What is, however, abundantly clear is the difference between employing a name and promoting in a fetish.
     
  12. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    If it is a Jewish Bible it has the name.....if it is a "Christian" Bible, it has the name represented by "The LORD" in capital letters.
     
  13. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Did God have a fetish? I believe he just distinguished himself with a unique name....Being a Jew of any age doesn't make you more of an expert on scripture than anyone else....does it? Your own scriptures tell us that God has a name and that it was to be his name "forever".
    Are Jews obedient to that directive?
     
  14. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Yahweh I was told means I Am, Who Am. And what that means, I don't know.
     
  15. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    I still cannot figure out where the name Jehovah came from.
    I couldn’t find it in any of the Bibles that I searched.
     
  16. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

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    There is only one true all-powerful all-loving creator God. And that God is God. Every other word is a false idol word. You can spell the word many different ways. But what the word means there is only one.
     
  17. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Malachi 3:16; Matthew 6:9
     
  18. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Tap on this: Psalms 83:18 and Isaiah 12:2
     
  19. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Ancient Uses of The Name
    What appears to be the first secular mention of the Divine Name is found in an inscription on an Egyptian temple dating from as early as the Mid-14th Century BCE (the period of Israelite Judges). It clearly seems to mention the Israelites as 'the (ta) Nomads (Shasu) of Yehwah (Ye-h-ua).'

    Where did the Name originate? Well, we get the impression that it was the Name that The God chose for Himself, for He appears to have first spoken it to Moses when telling him to go in His Name to deliver IsraEl from Egypt (see Exodus 3:13-15). However, the Name may have earlier roots among mankind, for Genesis 4:26 (when speaking of a pre-flood man named Enos) reads in Greek, 'elpisen epikaleisthai to onoma Kyriou tou Theou,' or, 'he/believed to/call/upon the Name Lord [Jehovah] his God.' This is similar to the words of the Hebrew text ('then began to/call the/Name יהוה'). However, other translators have chosen to imply a more negative meaning to the text.

    That the name Jehovah (which means, He who Causes to Be, or, The Creator, or possibly even The Life Giver) was originally in the Bible, is documented in all ancient Hebrew texts. In fact, it is found in the most ancient existing copy of the sacred writings, known as The Silver Scrolls, which is dated to the 8th Century BCE. And it is most likely that the Septuagint translation which Jesus and his Apostles used (most quotations they gave seem to have come from an ancient Septuagint) carried the Name in those four Hebrew characters that represent the English consonants YHWH (יהוה), known as the tetragrammation (four letters).

    Notice this comment by Robert Hanhart, who contributed the Introduction to 'The Septuagint as Christian Scripture.' He stated therein that, 'All Greek biblical texts of Jewish origin found to date, whether from pre-Christian or Christian times, transmit the name יהוה Jehovah not in the form κύριος [Lord] encountered in all the LXX [Septuagint] manuscripts of Christian origin, but in some form of the Tetragrammaton.' (See: 'The Septuagint as Christian Scripture,' 2002, book, p.7, by Martin Hengel. Introduction by Robert Hanhart, published by Baker Academic. ISBN 0-8010-2790-X).

    Exodus 6:1). And in the King James Bible, the Anglicized Name Jehovah still does appear in four texts (see Exodus 6:3 as an example).

    According to Bible historians; by the 1st Century-BCE, the Jews had become so awed with God's Name that they refused to write it or say it. So, it isn't surprising that God's Name was omitted from the later texts. The fact that God's Name was once there is well substantiated from ancient Bible manuscripts found among the Dead Sea Scrolls. In fact, a verse in the Jewish Talmud claims that Jesus received his miraculous powers because he had sewn the Holy Name under his skin… which indicates both their (his enemies') recognition of Jesus' miraculous powers and the common view of God's Name at the time (see the link ' What the Talmud Says about Jesus' under the subheading, The Description of Jesus in the Toledot Yeshu).

    Notice how (in the book of Isaiah, for example) God is often referred to in the Greek text as Kyrios ho Kyrios, or, Lord the Lord. And these are obvious examples of texts where God's Name was omitted, for such sentences should clearly read the Lord Jehovah. You can see this if you examine the actual Hebrew letters at Isaiah 48:16… then notice how they are have been translated there.

    (Excerpt from Jehovah)
     
  20. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    You may find the linked article interesting:

    "The vast majority of Jewish and Christian biblical scholars and linguists do not believe “Jehovah” to be the proper pronunciation of YHWH. There was no true J sound in ancient Hebrew. Even the Hebrew letter vav, which is transliterated as the W in YHWH is said to have originally had a pronunciation closer to W than the V of Jehovah. Jehovah is essentially a Germanic pronunciation of the Latinized transliteration of the Hebrew YHWH. It is the letters of the tetragrammaton, Latinized into JHVH, with vowels inserted. “Yahweh” or “Yehowah” is far more likely to be the correct pronunciation."
    Is Jehovah the true name of God?
     
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