God's Involvement in Your World

[Aupmanyav]

I think you will get an answer to this question the day you meet someone who spoke to God yesterday and asked this question.

Is there any one like that? Atheists like me would like to meet that person.

But its hypocrisy to believe in Brahman as you do, and declare "no evidence" to other people.

The best evidence today says that the universe began as a small ball of energy at high temperature and pressure. I am not saying nothing other than that. I have mentioned it a thousand times that Brahman - 'what exists', is 'physical energy'.

 

[firedragon]

Is there any one like that? Atheists like me would like to meet that person.

Very good. You should tell that to the poster I addressed, and tell him its not a valid question because "there is no one like that".

The best evidence today says that the universe began as a small ball of energy at high temperature and pressure. I am not saying nothing other than that. I have mentioned it a thousand times that Brahman - 'what exists', is 'physical energy'.

Prove that "Brahman exists" Energy or matter or whatever you want to call it, provide empirical evidence that brahman exists. Not just belief statements.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Very good. You should tell that to the poster I addressed, and tell him its not a valid question because "there is no one like that".

Prove that "Brahman exists" Energy or matter or whatever you want to call it, provide empirical evidence that brahman exists. Not just belief statements.

You should have told him that, the question was put to you - that a person who has met a God does not exist (However a few people are reported to have met, talked and seen Allah (As the Torah informs us). Moses is reported to have seen the hind parts of Allah and Zoroaster had conversations with Ahur Mazda (their word for Allah). Now, as a Muslim, you may not believe that though you accept Jews, Zoroastrians, Christians and Sabians as Ahl-al-kitab (people of the book).

The very fact that sun gives light proves that 'physical energy' exists as the result of nuclear reactions in the sun. Why ask such a childish question? See it all here:
NASA's breathtaking images of the sun - CNN Video

 

[1213]

I've read many times here that God wants, God loves, God hates, etc.

Is your god concerned with worldly affairs? If so, why? To what end?

What is your god's involvement in this world?

By what the Bible tells, God seems to want that we love others as our selves and that we would not be violent and evil. For example before the great flood, world was full of violence, which is why God ended most life on earth. So, apparently God wants that people are not evil, probably because He thinks it is not good.

 

[firedragon]

You should have told him that, the question was put to you

Cute.

The very fact that sun gives light proves that 'physical energy' exists as the result of nuclear reactions in the sun. Why ask such a childish question? See it all here:
NASA's breathtaking images of the sun - CNN Video

Lol. No one argues that energy doesnt exist. A red herring to avoid providing empirical evidence for the existence of brahman while you hypocritically ask others to provide evidence for their own beliefs.

that a person who has met a God does not exist (However a few people are reported to have met, talked and seen Allah (As the Torah informs us). Moses is reported to have seen the hind parts of Allah and Zoroaster had conversations with Ahur Mazda (their word for Allah). Now, as a Muslim, you may not believe that though you accept Jews, Zoroastrians, Christians and Sabians as Ahl-al-kitab (people of the book).

Aww. Did you get so hurt that I was addressing someone you wish to save?

I think you have a comprehension issue and is very touchy that you have to drift to attacking Islam and other religions for everything. Tribalistic dire need to defend who you think are in your "we" group, you have been blinded enough in your faith to not understand simple sentences. Big hurry to jump into defence.

Muhammed your favourite caricature is long gone. So its pitiful to refer to him, to a question asked today, that has to be questioned from God and answered tomorrow.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The Gospel according to Matthew was written by an anonymous author in or around the year 69. Thus, when you claim its "scripture" you have to provide evidence that it is "scripture". What is the Bahai scholarship the provides evidence that this is scripture other than some blind belief statement "because he says so"?

The evidence is that it is in the Bible, that the Christian Scholars have agreed it should be part of the Bible.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

The evidence is that it is in the Bible, that the Christian Scholars have agreed it should be part of the Bible.

Lol. The majority of Christian scholars absolutely agree with exactly what I said.

So, see Tony. Your claim above is false.

And the Bahai faith, and your interpretations of the whole Bible is poles apart from all Christian scholarship. I mean "ALL". So try not to randomly mention "Christian scholarship" when convenient, and absolutely dropping all kinds of scholarship of all scripture ever made in the history of mankind when convenient. That is the definition of hypocrisy.

Peace.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Lol. The majority of Christian scholars absolutely agree with exactly what I said.

So, see Tony. Your claim above is false.

And the Bahai faith, and your interpretations of the whole Bible is poles apart from all Christian scholarship. I mean "ALL". So try not to randomly mention "Christian scholarship" when convenient, and absolutely dropping all kinds of scholarship of all scripture ever made in the history of mankind when convenient. That is the definition of hypocrisy.

Peace.

Good on them firedragon.

It is a favourite tactic in your arsenal. I chose but one verse of many.

Luckily, that passage agrees with other such passages, that indicate is has a sound foundation.

Ezekiel 13:9 "My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign LORD."

Or
Jeremiah 14:14 Then the LORD said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

It is a favourite tactic in your arsenal. I chose but one verse of many.

Speaking about tactics, the tactic you used was to make a bogus statement about Christian scholars. Absolutely bogus.

Ezekiel 13:9 "My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign LORD."

Or
Jeremiah 14:14 Then the LORD said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds

Went fishing for verses you can quote mine?

No tom or dick believes "False prophets are speaking the truth". So you dont have to harp on it and repeat it with mined quotes from any scripture.

The point is, you made up a bogus story about Christian scholars. It is just being absolutely dishonest. Its a shame for Christian scholars, and a disgrace to misquote them when ever you feel like it. Its a shame to cherry pick the Bible when convenient, make a mockery out of it when convenient. Call it "superficial or allegorical" when convenient, and use mined quotes as if they are gospel truths.

This is the TACTIC you employ. I did not use tactics. I just said the truth about what Christian scholars say. Maybe you should read some scholarly work prior to making such made up stories.

).

 

[Aupmanyav]

Lol. No one argues that energy doesnt exist.
Aww. Did you get so hurt that I was addressing someone you wish to save?
Muhammed your favourite caricature is long gone.

Well, that is the question that you asked me, and I quote:

Prove that "Brahman exists" Energy or matter or whatever you want to call it, provide empirical evidence that brahman exists. Not just belief statements.

IMHO, what Hindus believe as Brahman, or in other words ('what exists'), is 'physical energy'.
I think the poster does not require any saving. He can do that himself. And perhaps, he has read my answer.

As my grandpa opined in his 1950 book, "Vishweshwara Smriti":
"Agocharam brahma matam munibhih tattvadarshibhih, vaigyanikai matā shaktih māya iti parigrihyatām." (1.24)
The munis and truth-knowing rishis who gave their view of the unknown Brahman, understanding. the scientists, accept that as energy and its Māya.

Yeah, humans go but their 'karma' effects generations, that is what Buddha said (like as the Christians say Adam is gone, but his sin sticks to them for all future, unless ..)

 

[firedragon]

IMHO, what Hindus believe as Brahman, or in other words ('what exists'), is 'physical energy'.
I think the poster does not require any saving. He can do that himself. And perhaps, he has read my answer.

So cute you two.

IMHO, what Hindus believe as Brahman, or in other words ('what exists'), is 'physical energy'.

Yep. I asked for empirical evidence, not belief statements. "I believe what the Hindus believe" is not "Empirical evidence".

The point is, its hypocrisy to ask others, when you cant provide yours.

Ciao.

 

[firedragon]

As my grandpa opined in his 1950 book, "Vishweshwara Smriti":
"Agocharam brahma matam munibhih tattvadarshibhih, vaigyanikai matā shaktih māya iti parigrihyatām." (1.24)
The munis and truth-knowing rishis who gave their view of the unknown Brahman, understanding. the scientists, accept that as energy and its Māya.

Yeah, humans go but their 'karma' effects generations, that is what Buddha said (like as the Christians say Adam is gone, but his sin sticks to them for all future, unless ..)

So you claim to be an atheist, but believe in scripture, karma, Roshi's, and a whole lot of things including Brahaman, "With no evidence" while you ask others for evidence.

I dont think I have seen a better display of hypocrisy so directly.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah. I am a strong atheist, but I do pick up if I find something wise in scriptures. Upanishads and Gita are examples.
Who does not believe that our actions have consequences? That is not related to religions alone. Even my actions had / will have consequences which will affect people after I am no more (for example, in the way I have raised my children and what they will inherit from my holdings). In what way am I committing hypocrisy?
All actions have consequences, that is Newton's law.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Speaking about tactics, the tactic you used was to make a bogus statement about Christian scholars. Absolutely bogus.

The statement I made is that previous Christain scholars had included the book. So I would assume the persons that agreed to use Matthew in the Bible, would have another opinion, other than yours. In the end you are commenting on the status of the scholarship of the Church, that compiled the Bible.

Thus your argument is against them.

Meanwhile, I will use the Bible as it is, knowing that Allah has confirmed that it is a sure spiritual guide.

I do wonder at the wasted years of scholarship, the years of debate trying to discredit the Bible, all in the attempt to paint the Quran as the only reliable Light of God.

Luckily I do not have to be a scholar to find that light.

I will leave you to those debates firedragon, they are not for me.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Its a shame to cherry pick the Bible when convenient, make a mockery out of it when convenient.

Firstly I have and will never make a mockery of the Bible. This is all I will ever offer about the Bible.

"THIS book is the Holy Book of God, of celestial Inspiration. It is the Bible of Salvation, the noble Gospel. It is the mystery of the Kingdom and its light. It is the Divine Bounty, the sign of the guidance of God, Abdul Baha Abbas."

So the part of the reply you have not addressed is again offered. Does the quoted passage from Matthew reflect what other books in the bible say about False Prophets?

Also a Bonus, I would assume I can find many ahadith that would also warn about false prophets, that those ahadith also reflect and support what is recorded in Matthew. Is that an accurate assumption?

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Meanwhile, I will use the Bible as it is, knowing that Allah has confirmed that it is a sure spiritual guide.

Why do you ignore these quotes...

The Bible is not wholly authentic, and in this respect is not to be compared with the Qur'an, and should be wholly subordinated to the authentic writings of Bahá'u'lláh
. (28 July 1936 to a National Spiritual Assembly)

...we cannot be sure how much or how little of the four Gospels are accurate and include the words of Christ and His undiluted teachings, all we can be sure of, as Bahá'ís, is that what has been quoted by Bahá'u'lláh and the Master must be absolutely authentic. As many times passages in the Gospel of St. John are quoted we may assume that it is his Gospel and much of it accurate.
(23 January 1944 to an individual believer)

When 'Abdu'l-Bahá states we believe what is in the Bible, He means in substance. Not that we believe every word of it to be taken literally or that every word is the authentic saying of the Prophet.
(11 February 1944 to an individual believer)
​

I'm sure you can find many inspiring verses in the Bible and the NT. But do Baha'is really use the Bible and the NT "as it is"? Or, as they want it to be? Meaning how Baha'is have made it to conform to the teachings of the Baha'i Faith. Again, Baha'is dump Satan and dump the resurrection and by making these and other trouble-some verses symbolic.

But now to tie the Bible into this thread. God was greatly involved with his people... If we take the Bible "as it is". God sent plagues to Egypt. He led his people through the wilderness and sent manna from heaven. Lengthened a day by stopping the Sun in the sky. Sent fire from heaven to consume Elijah's offering. So, for Baha'is, do they believe these things really happened or were they only symbolic and God didn't really do any of them?

 

[firedragon]

The statement I made is that previous Christain scholars had included the book.

Please quote me which scholar, and what was the methodology!

So I would assume the persons that agreed to use Matthew in the Bible, would have another opinion, other than yours. In the end you are commenting on the status of the scholarship of the Church, that compiled the Bible.

Assumption based on what? Blind faith? If so, why not embrace everything, but not make some parts an absolute dream or as you call "allegory". If you embrace he person, why cherry pick what feels good to you? Do you agree there is no methodology but its just blind faith on what someone told you?

Thus your argument is against them.

Not at all. Thats just a made up ad hominem. If you wish I can quote Christian scholars that falsely made bogus accusations of.

Meanwhile, I will use the Bible as it is, knowing that Allah has confirmed that it is a sure spiritual guide.

Further bogus claims. "Allah" which means "The God" never claims in the Quran that the printed book called the Bible is Gods word and is a spiritual guide. Im pretty sure you have never read any of these books, nor have you read any scholarship of any of the books you claim. None. From the Hindu, Buddhist to Christian and muslim scriptures.

I do wonder at the wasted years of scholarship, the years of debate trying to discredit the Bible, all in the attempt to paint the Quran as the only reliable Light of God.

I know that you dont even know your "Own scriptures". And of course you dont know any of the other ones.

Luckily I do not have to be a scholar to find that light.

Forget scholarship. You have not even read them.

Firstly I have and will never make a mockery of the Bible. This is all I will ever offer about the Bible.

"THIS book is the Holy Book of God, of celestial Inspiration. It is the Bible of Salvation, the noble Gospel. It is the mystery of the Kingdom and its light. It is the Divine Bounty, the sign of the guidance of God, Abdul Baha Abbas."

So the part of the reply you have not addressed is again offered. Does the quoted passage from Matthew reflect what other books in the bible say about False Prophets?

Also a Bonus, I would assume I can find many ahadith that would also warn about false prophets, that those ahadith also reflect and support what is recorded in Matthew. Is that an accurate assumption?

You do make a huge mockery of the Bible. I understand that the Bahai attempt is to catch the Christians and everyone at large, but this is just rosy preaching. But you make a mockery of all the scriptures, and every theology you can find. While of course, having never in your life read a single one of these books.

I said this twice, and I will say it again because your red herring trick seems to be your so called "tactic" while you accuse others. The word false doesnt mean truth. So anyone who is false is not speaking the truth. Maybe you can try your levels best to understand that simple statement.

By the way, the Quran says Muhammed was the last messenger. I understand that you have to make some amazing hoop jumping to avoid that claim.

 

[Link]

I've read many times here that God wants, God loves, God hates, etc.

Is your god concerned with worldly affairs? If so, why? To what end?

What is your god's involvement in this world?

God plans through his guardian king on earth, and Angels descend to that person, and believers are given orders. This happens in summary on the night of value/measurement/worth. To be part of God's plan, one has to contact the leader.

There are two type of believers per Quran. Those who profess their faith in the open, others are, secret Agents, who hide their faith, and work to bring good.

The Quran was revealed to make people aware of God through his appointed Masters of believers, they bring people from darkness to light.

He is deeply concerned with all our affairs, and trying to bring us towards a dignified return to him.

 

[Trailblazer]

By the way, the Quran says Muhammed was the last messenger. I understand that you have to make some amazing hoop jumping to avoid that claim.

No hoop is necessary to jump through. As usual, it all boils down to interpretation of the scriptures.

Why I didn't believe in Bahaism when I researched it.

https://bahaiteachings.org/the-seal-of-the-prophets-unsealed

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But you make a mockery of all the scriptures, and every theology you can find. While of course, having never in your life read a single one of these books.

By the way, the Quran says Muhammed was the last messenger. I understand that you have to make some amazing hoop

As I have offerd, I have no need to debate the scholarship of faiths, I just offer what I have found, from what I see is the fulfillment of past scriptures, thus from what is provided from God.

So, luckily for me, as I am a slow learner, God's involvement in my World forbids such waste of time, wasting our life in endless pointless debates, which only proves we are both wrong by engaging in such a manner, a prohibition I am slowly learning the wisdom of.

Regards Tony