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God's First Created Being

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Well, it can happen to experience some confusion when you wake up, especially after such a mighty bang.
And to say I am what I am, is something in line with some confusional state. I mean, how can someone be what he is not?
- viole

I find 'I am what I am' is Not the Tetragrammaton of Psalms 83:18.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
About that he only says,"I am that I am". It's my personal opinion that he became conscious at the Big Bang. For us that is an endless amount of time.

In Scripture I find that God was before the Big Bang because God is from everlasting as per Psalms 90:2.
So, only God was 'before any beginning' including the beginning or start of the Big Bang.
Material creation came from God's 'power' and His 'strength ' according to Isaiah 40:26 B
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Where in genesis Satan is mentioned?

True, in Genesis the title Satan is Not used but he is mentioned in that he used that serpent,
As we know animals do Not talk as that serpent did, so someone was using that serpent as a ventriloquist uses his dummy. Ezekiel lets us know who that un-named Genesis person was at Ezekiel 28:13-16 a spirit person (angel).
That Genesis serpent is thus titled Satan at Revelation 12:9 for us.
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
True, in Genesis the title Satan is Not used but he is mentioned in that he used that serpent,
As we know animals do Not talk as that serpent did, so someone was using that serpent as a ventriloquist uses his dummy. Ezekiel lets us know who that un-named Genesis person was at Ezekiel 28:13-16 a spirit person (angel).
That Genesis serpent is thus titled Satan at Revelation 12:9 for us.
The snake doesn't represent Satan, it represents Ego.
Besides that, the choice Adam and Eve made was a necessity.
It is said that Adam and Eve could communicate with animals while in heaven. It doesn't mean the snake was talking like a human.
 
Besides that, the choice Adam and Eve made was a necessity.

What necessity? God made plenty of trees. There was only one they were told not to eat from.

Genesis 2:9,16-17
[9]And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
[16]And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
[17]But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
What necessity? God made plenty of trees. There was only one they were told not to eat from.

Genesis 2:9,16-17
[9]And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
[16]And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
[17]But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Indeed. They were told what will be the consequences of eating that tree.
Assuming they haven't, we were lacking the ability to understand good from bad, meaning we hadn't have the concept of bad, meaning we had no freedom of choice.
Ask yourself why would God create the tree in the first place?
 
Indeed. They were told what will be the consequences of eating that tree.
Assuming they haven't, we were lacking the ability to understand good from bad, meaning we hadn't have the concept of bad, meaning we had no freedom of choice.
Ask yourself why would God create the tree in the first place?

Adam and Eve already had free will or they would not have been able to make the choice to eat the fruit. The only thing they lacked from not eating it was the ability to suffer and die.

Romans 5:12
[12]Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

God will never tell us not to do something when it is in our best interest to do it.

They did not have to know evil. It was enough to trust God who is all knowing.

Proverbs 3:5-7
[5]Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
[6]In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
[7]Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

The rebellion of Adam was an attempt to make a god of himself - to believe he did not need God's protection - that he could be wiser than God and deal with evil on his own.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
I've been using King James 1960

I say.....God First
and forming spirit in spirit.....is a problem

you get a reflection of yourSELF
and you end up speaking to your Echo

think of the situation as a collection of mirrors
each one casts your reflection but.....
there is miscoloring or distortion

it's You
but not really You

and the conversation is lacking in some way
so......

Let us make Man
in our image

So when God said, "Let us make man in our image, Who do you suppose God was talking to?
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
I was hoping to get answers from those who have studied the bible. I am going on what i was told.


When God said "Let us" this being the sons of God, the Angels.
God and the Angels are in the image and likeness of man.

I know I will get alot of complaining about this, from those who go by man's teachings,
but then I do not follow the teachings of man's.
All because Christ Jesus condemned the teachings of man's.
In the bible the book of Matthew 15:7-9
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"
 

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
God, his angels, and all of Heaven existed for eternity alwaysbefore. The only thing God created was the Hate Devil, for a short time. Because all that is new must grow old and die, away from Gods nature, if he lets them exist even at all. Leading to eternity everafter for those faithful men and women.
 
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osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
When God said "Let us" this being the sons of God, the Angels.
God and the Angels are in the image and likeness of man.

I know I will get alot of complaining about this, from those who go by man's teachings,
but then I do not follow the teachings of man's.
All because Christ Jesus condemned the teachings of man's.
In the bible the book of Matthew 15:7-9
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"

I suppose if you do the logic, and arithmetic on what the 'us' means in that scripture, you could come away with it meaning that it must have been the angels, and God creating man, and not a much debated Trinity, or some other beings.

The rebellion of 1/3 of the angels under Lucifer must have occured sometime after that.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
LOL...but it doesn't stop you posting rubbish like that from Metzger. :rolleyes:

Who is he to critique our translation, when the Churches he represents, demonstrate complete bias towards their own interpretation of scripture and skew everything towards their trinity. He speaks of the fundamental errors of Jehovah's Witnesses like he would know an error if it jumped up and bit him. o_O He is indoctrinated with Christendom's views, which makes his opinion null and void IMO.He is as biased in his views as he believes we are.

Lets take his statements apart and really analyze what he is saying......lets critique the critique...

"It is proposed, rather, to give consideration to one of the fundamental errors of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, namely, that which concerns the person of Jesus Christ. Today as of old, a proper response to the primary question, “What think ye of Christ? Whose son is he?” (Matt. 22:42), constitutes a veritable touchstone of historic Christianity. Certain other aberrations in Biblical understanding may doubtless be tolerated if one is, so to speak, turned in the right direction with regard to Christology. But if a sect’s basic orientation toward Jesus Christ be erroneous, it must be seriously doubted whether the name “Christian” can rightly be applied to such a system. (It will be observed that no judgment is here passed upon individual adherents to such a system, some of whom may be better than they have a right to be on the basis of their professed denial of central Biblical truths.)"

So lets turn the tables here.....what if Christendom's version of who Christ is, is in error? What if it is they who are denying central Biblical truths? Then can the name "Christian" be rightly applied to them? Who says Christendom is correct in her understanding of what Christ taught? Jesus and his apostles foretold that an apostasy which was already "at work" before the apostles died would surface internally. (Acts 20:29-30; 2 Peter 2:1-3) Their restraining influence kept it at bay (2 Thessalonians 2:6-7) until the last of the Christian scriptures were penned....then there was nothing to stop the "weeds" from taking over. (Matthew 13:24-30; 36-42)

What in the history of the early church is proof that this apostasy took place just as it was prophesied? One only has to look at Roman Catholicism to see that the rot set in in the early centuries....the most unchristian behaviors were seen when corrupt men appointed by other corrupt men, abused their power, hunting down supposed heretics. They then tortured them to force confession and murdered anyone who dared to question their beliefs or practices. The tyranny of those times lasted for 1500 years.....until a Catholic scholar named Martin Luther challenged the church over a list of things that he considered needed the urgent attention of the church hierarchy. Bible study, prayer, and meditation helped him to gain a better understanding of how God views sinners......Luther recognized that God’s favor cannot be earned. Rather, it is granted through undeserved kindness to those exercising faith. (Romans 1:16; 3:23, 24, 28)

It was then widely believed that after death, sinners had to undergo punishment for a period of time. However, it was said that this time could be shortened by indulgences granted on the pope’s authority in exchange for money. This led to a booming trade selling indulgences to the common people. Many viewed indulgences as a sort of insurance against future sins, buying their way out of punishment. Luther was indignant about the sale of indulgences. He knew that men cannot bargain with God for money. In the autumn of 1517, he wrote his famous 95 theses, accusing the church of financial, doctrinal, and religious abuse. Wanting to encourage a reform, not a rebellion, Luther sent copies of his theses to Archbishop Albert of Mainz and to several scholars. Many historians point to 1517 or thereabouts as the birth of the Reformation.

But did the Reformation bring "Christianity" back to the church? Did it unify the beliefs of the people? Unfortunately, some very ingrained dogma had crept into the psyche of the church reformers.....immortality of the human soul.....a hell of eternal torment and the triune nature of God. ...these the reformers brought with them into the Protestant movement, contaminating Christianity even more as men sought to establish their own 'brands' of it....sectarianism ran amok and today there are literally thousands of sects all claiming to be Christians, yet holding different beliefs. But the one thing you will notice is that despite their differences, they all hold that core of Catholic dogma in common.

"According to the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christ before his earthly life was a spirit-creature named Michael, the first of God’s creation, through whom God made the other created things. As a consequence of his birth on earth, which was not an incarnation, Jesus became a perfect human being, the equal of Adam prior to the Fall. In his death Jesus’ human nature, being sacrificed, was annihilated. As a reward for his sacrificial obedience God gave him a divine, spirit nature. Throughout his existence, therefore, Jesus Christ never was co-equal with God. He is not eternal, for there was a time when he was not. While he was on earth he was nothing more than a man, and therefore the atoning effect of his death can have no more significance than that of a perfect human being. Throughout there is an ill-concealed discontinuity between the pre-existent spirit creature, the earthly man Jesus, and the present spirit existence of Christ Jesus."

According to the Bible, Jesus is a creation of his God and Father. The apostle Paul confirms this in Colossians 1:13-15. Jesus also confirmed it in his Revelation to John. (Revelation 3:14) Nowhere in scripture did Jesus ever claim equality with his God but the Bible does say that he came to represent his Father as a "mediator between God and men".

To say that we believe that he was "nothing more than a man" is nonsense. He came from heaven to become a human in order to give his life to pay for the sins of Adam's children. That makes him way more than any human could ever be in this world. The law of God demanded equivalency..."an eye for an eye...tooth for a tooth....life for a life" So in order to atone for the perfect sinless life that Adam lost for his children, Jesus had to be born as a kinsman of Abraham's offspring. Being born to Mary gave him that status. Having God produce his human life made him sinless. The heavenly life of the pre-human Jesus was interrupted for a short time by his earthly sojourn, but his death accomplished what he was sent to do and his resurrection returned him to heaven with added bonuses for his faithful course. In heaven the God of Jesus is still his Father. (Revelation 3:12)
Your hubris is truly astounding. This is nearly like saying that Plato knew nothing about philosophy, Alexander knew nothing about military strategy, Ford knew nothing of business, Bach knew nothing about music, and Yeager knows nothing of aviation. All because YOU And your highly flawed eisegesis disagree with him.

You are, of course, free to believe what you want; that’s the beauty of Christendom. But you don’t get to pass judgment born of ignorance on the rest of us.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
I suppose if you do the logic, and arithmetic on what the 'us' means in that scripture, you could come away with it meaning that it must have been the angels, and God creating man, and not a much debated Trinity, or some other beings.

The rebellion of 1/3 of the angels under Lucifer must have occured sometime after that.

Nope 1/3 of the angels that followed Lucifer in his rebellion happen way back before the flesh and blood body man was created.
Man himself was always with God.this being of Course the angels.

There are place's in the bible where angels are called man.

Take the book of Daniel 9:21, That the Angel Gabriel is called a man.

Daniel 9:21---"Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation"

So when God said ( Let's us make man in our image after our likeness)
God was talking to the angels, Let's us make man in our image and likeness.

So the angels help in forming the flesh and blood body of man from the earth,
But it took God to give this flesh and blood body man the breath of life to life.
 
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