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God's Checklist by Scott Clifton

Skwim

Veteran Member
Incredibly right on point. It should be mandatory viewing for everyone considering becoming a Christian as well as present Christians.

Thank you for digging this up and sharing.

.
 
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taykair

Active Member
Allow, in Your divine plan, the grace which gives young punks who are still wet behind the ears the opportunity to go on Facebook and recite a litany of insults to their Christian "friends" (wink).

Check.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Allow, in Your divine plan, the grace which gives young punks who are still wet behind the ears the opportunity to go on Facebook and recite a litany of insults to their Christian "friends" (wink).

Check.
The truth is an insult? That's an interesting and telling response.

.
 

taykair

Active Member
Yes. It's always interesting and telling, isn't it? It's much better to actually say what's on one's mind than... never mind. It's pointless to argue about it.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
All very naive interpretations of Christian theology. Granted, there are plenty of very naive Christians around that also believe and propose that these interpretations are 'true to reality', but the foolishness of the many does not justify this particular man's foolish misinterpretations, even if they are intended to expose the foolishness of others.

In fact, especially so.
 
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A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Yes. It's always interesting and telling, isn't it? It's much better to actually say what's on one's mind than... never mind. It's pointless to argue about it.
Pfff.... I'll say it. It is so likely that God does not exist as is laid out by Chrisianity that it boggles my mind how anyone gets stuck grasping at the idea.

Straightforward enough?
 
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A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
All very naive interpretations of Christian theology. Granted, there are plenty of very nerve Christians around that also believe and propose that these interpretations are 'true to reality', but the foolishness of the many does not justify this particular man's foolish misinterpretations, even if they are intended to expose the foolishness of others.

In fact, especially so.
If you take out all of the flowery verbiage and storyteller's spin on the substance of The Bible and just lay the "facts" out as they exist in the book itself, a huge portion of it sounds completely ludicrous - much like the video attempts to frame up. Shouldn't something cogent retain its pith even if it is stated plainly?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
If you take out all of the flowery verbiage and storyteller's spin on the substance of The Bible and just lay the "facts" out as they exist in the book itself, a huge portion of it sounds completely ludicrous - much like the video attempts to frame up. Shouldn't something cogent retain its pith even if it is stated plainly?
The reason we use poetic, symbolic, and metaphorical language is because "the facts" just don't reveal the reality of things, as we humans experience them. The Bible was never intended to be a "factual" account of anything; of God, or history, of humanity; of anything. It was intended to focus the reader on the inexplicable reality of living with a specific idealization of "God". A "God" as the alpha and omega of all that is. The source, sustenance, motive, and purpose of everything that exists. A "God" that demands what we cannot possibly give. A "God" that knows what we can't possibly know. It's a relationship based on faith, not facts. A relationship defined and determined by the action of one's faith in the inexplicable.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
... because "the facts" just don't reveal the reality of things, as we humans experience them...
I've never actually had this particular problem. Facts work just fine for me. Things I can rely on to be true, day in and day out. Things that can be expressed simply and concisely - that don't need to be dressed up in mumbo jumbo in order for them to be palatable.

Do I enjoy a good metaphor? Absolutely.

Do I enjoy when an artist or writer is able to capture a moment in time so succinctly, in so few words that are related to the actual subject matter only just marginally enough that you can discern the mystery they left there for you? Of course.

Am I psyched to live my life according to prose and fantastical rendering of what boils down to, in many cases within The Bible, intellectual misgivings, out-dated advice and the ravings of the relatively ignorant? I have to say no, not really.
 
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Skwim

Veteran Member
All very naive interpretations of Christian theology. Granted, there are plenty of very naive Christians around that also believe and propose that these interpretations are 'true to reality', but the foolishness of the many does not justify this particular man's foolish misinterpretations, even if they are intended to expose the foolishness of others.

In fact, especially so.
You say either and I say ither. You say neither and I say nither. You like potato and I like potahto. You like tomato and I like tomahto.

IOW, You're excused. :)

.


 

Skwim

Veteran Member
The reason we use poetic, symbolic, and metaphorical language is because "the facts" just don't reveal the reality of things, as we humans experience them. The Bible was never intended to be a "factual" account of anything; of God, or history, of humanity; of anything. It was intended to focus the reader on the inexplicable reality of living with a specific idealization of "God". A "God" as the alpha and omega of all that is. The source, sustenance, motive, and purpose of everything that exists. A "God" that demands what we cannot possibly give. A "God" that knows what we can't possibly know. It's a relationship based on faith, not facts. A relationship defined and determined by the action of one's faith in the inexplicable.
Yet the Bible is filled to the brim with unqualified pronouncements of fact. Of course it's no mystery why many believers resort to sorting out these pronouncements into two piles: Facts; and "what we need to consider to be poetry, symbology, and metaphors in order to make sense out of the Bible."

Just another form of cherry picking the Bible.

.
 

taykair

Active Member
Yesterday, I was unnecessarily rude to Skwim. I apologize, both to him and to the other members here. In the future, I will try harder to keep my exasperation in check.

Once again, apologies to all.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I've never actually had this particular problem. Facts work just fine for me. Things I can rely on to be true, day in and day out. Things that can be expressed simply and concisely - that don't need to be dressed up in mumbo jumbo in order for them to be palatable.

Do I enjoy a good metaphor? Absolutely.

Do I enjoy when an artist or writer is able to capture a moment in time so succinctly in so few words that are related to the actual subject matter only just marginally enough that you can discern the mystery they left there for you? Of course.

Am I psyched to live my life according to prose and fantastical rendering of what boils down to, in many cases within The Bible, intellectual misgivings, out-dated advice and the ravings of the relatively ignorant? I have to say no, not really.
Well, you are not the yardstick by which the rest of us live. And your limited understanding of biblical text and particularly of the value and action of faith serves as no useful criteria for how others engage in their religions. So I'm not sure what your point, here, is, except to slander something that you don't really even understand, mostly because you don't understand it.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Yet the Bible is filled to the brim with unqualified pronouncements of fact.
So is a Shakespeare play. So is a Star Wars movie. And yet somehow you managed to recognize that your temporary suspension of disbelief when you engage with them had a higher purpose than to make you an idiot. Yet with the Bible, you just can't seem to allow for that suspension of disbelief in the service of a higher purpose.

Why is that?
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Well, you are not the yardstick by which the rest of us live. And your limited understanding of biblical text and particularly of the value and action of faith serves as no useful criteria for how others engage in their religions. So I'm not sure what your point, here, is, except to slander something that you don't really even understand, mostly because you don't understand it.
But isn't that the Christian directive? To rally others to live by "the way" so that they can be "saved?" In other words, Christianity believes it is THE yardstick. You're absolutely right that I'm not... nor do I need to be. However, in my experience, Christianity and its adherents seem to feel they need to be. Hence the exact and total reason I feel the need to affirm my "no, thanks" stance. I'm not prescribing my stance for others in doing so... simply trying to make it understood that there are those (and hopefully always will be) who stand in firm opposition to having their morality and prescriptions for "acceptable" livelihood handed to them.
 
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