Gods are a Dime a Dozen

[Clara Tea]

If you really want to show respect, you should address God with "She".

Ciao

- viole

I often wonder what would happen if a bigot or woman-hater got to heaven and found that God was a member of his scorned groups. Not only do I wonder about the bigot's reaction, I wonder if a huge foot is going to stomp....squish.

DNA, to some, sounds like a tool of Hitler (to determine who is more racially pure). Yet, DNA has revealed to some bigots (for example a Grand Wizard of the KKK) that they have Black ancestry.

Isn't it odd how bigots twist their religion, wear crosses (KKK), cite bible passages, then do horrible things (toss Blacks into rivers wrapped in chains)?

We should evaluate everything that we do. Why have mass murderers not analyzed their own behaviors and turned themselves in?

 

[ACEofALLaces]

No new Messengers are slated to come any sooner than 2852 AD, so by the time the NEXT Messenger comes you and me will be looking down from heaven. heh heh heh

Well if nothing else, THAT's a relief...not having to deal another "Bahaullah" type again. As far as 'looking down from heaven', that in MY honest opinion, is nothing more than some leftover nonsense from the goat and sheep herder days.
No one and I really MEAN no one has ever presented enough, or actually ANY evidence that some place called "heaven", or hell either for that matter, really exists outside of the wishful thinking minds of believers unwilling to accept the finality of their deaths.
BUT it sure sounds good, and if believing it provides YOU with some sense of satisfaction, who am I to dispute that?

 

[ACEofALLaces]

I often wonder what would happen if a bigot or woman-hater got to heaven and found that God was a member of his scorned groups. Not only do I wonder about the bigot's reaction, I wonder if a huge foot is going to stomp....squish.

DNA, to some, sounds like a tool of Hitler (to determine who is more racially pure). Yet, DNA has revealed to some bigots (for example a Grand Wizard of the KKK) that they have Black ancestry.

I dunno about it being any sort of tool of Hitler, but I DO know that humanity itself originated IN the land where nothing BUT blacks live.....and all other "colors" of human beings OWE their existence and ancestry to SOME BLACK PERSON back in Africa.
It's a really hard nut for white supremacists to crack, but the archeological and paleontology evidence is there to back it up.

 

[1213]

No. God in Islam and Bahaiism also have message for all of us, ....

Ok, I can accept there are another god's that allegedly have also a message. However, I think this limits greatly the number of alleged gods. This leads also to question, if the message is the same in all of them, is the God the same also? And if other god has a message, I think it then leads to question, what it is and is it good. I think the message must be somehow meaningful and good.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well if nothing else, THAT's a relief...not having to deal another "Bahaullah" type again.

Lol, what is wrong with the Baha'u'llah type?

As far as 'looking down from heaven', that in MY honest opinion, is nothing more than some leftover nonsense from the goat and sheep herder days.
No one and I really MEAN no one has ever presented enough, or actually ANY evidence that some place called "heaven", or hell either for that matter, really exists outside of the wishful thinking minds of believers unwilling to accept the finality of their deaths.
BUT it sure sounds good, and if believing it provides YOU with some sense of satisfaction, who am I to dispute that?

All I can say is that you'll find out. Till then, we all have our beliefs.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

But God is a "he." The original Hebrew has only two genders. They chose masculine for "God."

God is not a He in the sense of not having a sex. Gender is not sex. Gender is a linguistic noun-class that has nothing to do with sex.
In France a table is feminine. Haul it across the border to Germany and is suddenly becomes masculine.

English is only able to equate the two inasmuch as English is a very unusual language with natural gender, where the noun-class and biological sex coincide.

After all that, I STILL feel and believe this God should be referred to as "IT".....no gender identity issues there .

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Lol, what is wrong with the Baha'u'llah type?.

One that goes and declares he has heard FROM GOD, and then writes a bunch of stuff down, which is surprisingly similar to scriptures that are ALREADY in existence, as being some sort of "evidence" to support his claim.
I think the word for that is fraud......or maybe it is phony. We don't need ANOTHER one of him.

All I can say is that you'll find out. Till then, we all have our beliefs.

I'll "find out" WHAT?......When a person dies, they ARE dead. There has NEVER been an authenticated incident where a truly DEAD person, is NOT really DEAD, and gone, kaput, fini.
It's all this superstition driven poppy-cock from dinosaur religions, that refuse to accept the finality of death, and continue to feed and foster all those emotional needy ones, some satisfaction that there really IS more to life than THIS.
Just like the rest of those religious claims......all talk, nothing of substance.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Ok, I can accept there are another god's that allegedly have also a message. However, I think this limits greatly the number of alleged gods. This leads also to question, if the message is the same in all of them, is the God the same also? And if other god has a message, I think it then leads to question, what it is and is it good. I think the message must be somehow meaningful and good.

This is sure to stir some up.....but it has always been my contention, that if God has ANY message that is meaningful for "us" to hear, then it behooves this God to MAKE that message HEARD directly, and not via some sort of 2nd or 3rd hand party line nonsense.

Should NOT be a difficult task for an omnipotent God.....but there ARE those who feel for whatever trumped up reason they can come up with, that this God either cannot, or WILLnot do that. Which of course, JUSTIFIES their notion that there needs to be a "messenger" to accomplish that feat FOR God.

 

[Trailblazer]

One that goes and declares he has heard FROM GOD, and then writes a bunch of stuff down, which is surprisingly similar to scriptures that are ALREADY in existence, as being some sort of "evidence" to support his claim.
I think the word for that is fraud......or maybe it is phony. We don't need ANOTHER one of him.

The only reason some of what He wrote is similar is because it came from the SAME God and spiritual truths are the same in every age. But there is much that He wrote that has never been written before, so it is NEW.

I'll "find out" WHAT?......When a person dies, they ARE dead. There has NEVER been an authenticated incident where a truly DEAD person, is NOT really DEAD, and gone, kaput, fini.

Try to think about why that is the case. Duh, got milk?

Here I will help you. If there is a spiritual world (heaven) that we go to it is ANOTHER world, so there is no way to KNOW what happened to people who have crossed over unless spirits who exist in that world are able to communicate with mediums who exist in this world.

It's all this superstition driven poppy-cock from dinosaur religions, that refuse to accept the finality of death, and continue to feed and foster all those emotional needy ones, some satisfaction that there really IS more to life than THIS.
Just like the rest of those religious claims......all talk, nothing of substance.

Blah blah blah.... You think you can waft everything away by saying that people believe in an afterlife for emotional reasons, but that is garbage. That is just a biased opinion and it carries no weight since it just an OPINION, not a FACT.

All I can say is that you'll find out. Exactly WHAT you will find out only God knows but you will surely know you are not DEAD.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

The only reason some of what He wrote is similar is because it came from the SAME God and spiritual truths are the same in every age. But there is much that He wrote that has never been written before, so it is NEW..

So that is supposed to detract from him having essentially copied down scripture that he was already familiar with? Ok, he added some of his own perceptions, and opinions into the mix. Now what?

TheTry to think about why that is the case. Duh, got milk?

I'm sorry but that simply flew right over my balding head.

Here I will help you. If there is a spiritual world (heaven) that we go to it is ANOTHER world, so there is no way to KNOW what happened to people who have crossed over unless spirits who exist in that world are able to communicate with mediums who exist in this world.

ANY claim predicated with an ambiguous "IF", does not warrant anymore than passing attention. I do not accept the existence of any such "places", ESPECIALLY, when there is no way to actually determine their validity. And then to CLAIM that dead people actually GO there, is just foolish at best.

Blah blah blah.... You think you can waft everything away by saying that people believe in an afterlife for emotional reasons, but that is garbage. That is just a biased opinion and it carries no weight since it just an OPINION, not a FACT.

There you are chiding ME about offering what amounts to MY OPINION of your outlandish claims, as not being "FACT"......when you sit wherever YOU are, and make such proclamations, in the complete and total absence of any supporting FACTS yourself. Kettle and Pot, comes instantly to mind.

All I can say is that you'll find out. Exactly WHAT you will find out only God knows but you will surely know you are not DEAD.

Yep, that's about ALL you can do is "say stuff" that you cannot back up with any kind of meaningful support. To declare that a dead person is not REALLY DEAD, is about as preposterous as one of those "living dead" programs on TV.

 

[Trailblazer]

So that is supposed to detract from him having essentially copied down scripture that he was already familiar with? Ok, he added some of his own perceptions, and opinions into the mix. Now what?

Baha'u'llah did NOT copy down anyone else's scripture, He wrote ALL of His own scripture.

ANY claim predicated with an ambiguous "IF", does not warrant anymore than passing attention. I do not accept the existence of any such "places", ESPECIALLY, when there is no way to actually determine their validity. And then to CLAIM that dead people actually GO there, is just foolish at best.

There you are chiding ME about offering what amounts to MY OPINION of your outlandish claims, as not being "FACT"......when you sit wherever YOU are, and make such proclamations, in the complete and total absence of any supporting FACTS yourself. Kettle and Pot, comes instantly to mind.

It is not a claim, it is a belief. I don't claim things I cannot prove.
It is not an IF to me, I only added the IF for you...
You are free to believe whatever you want to believe and I will do likewise.

Yep, that's about ALL you can do is "say stuff" that you cannot back up with any kind of meaningful support. To declare that a dead person is not REALLY DEAD, is about as preposterous as one of those "living dead" programs on TV.

Their physical body is dead but their soul lives on, so they are not REALLY DEAD becaue only their body is dead.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

It is not a claim, it is a belief. I don't claim things I cannot prove.

Their physical body is dead but their soul lives on, so they are not REALLY DEAD because only their body is dead.

Lady speaketh with forked tongue......says does not claim anything she cannot prove......then turns right around and makes a claim about a SOUL.
Ok smarty pants......WHERE'S YOUR PROOF that there really IS a "soul"

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Baha'u'llah did NOT copy down anyone else's scripture, He wrote ALL of His own scripture..

Some time back I questioned you on the uncanny similarity of what your Baha'u'llah wrote, to PREVIOUSLY written scriptures, and your response was that "both instances were give by the same God" as the reason why.

And then you go on to declare that Baha'u'llah wrote a lot of his OWN stuff,,,,which again bears a strong resemblence to more previously written scriptures....and that it APPEARS that what Baha'u'llah is doing is paraphrasing bibilical scriptures, in his OWN words, using his OWN pen, as you like to say.

In some of the research I am doing "on my own", I discover that Baha'u'llah was a highly educated, learned man and was NOT a stranger to bibilical scriptures. It ALL points to Baha'u'llah not necessarily being ALL that you CLAIM he is.

 

[Trailblazer]

Lady speaketh with forked tongue......says does not claim anything she cannot prove......then turns right around and makes a claim about a SOUL.
Ok smarty pants......WHERE'S YOUR PROOF that there really IS a "soul"

That was not a claim, it is my belief, but I can understand why it sounded like a claim.
There is no PROOF of the soul because the soul is a mystery of God.

“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him. If it be faithful to God, it will reflect His light, and will, eventually, return unto Him. If it fail, however, in its allegiance to its Creator, it will become a victim to self and passion, and will, in the end, sink in their depths...”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 158-159

“The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men. The Prophets and Messengers of God have been sent down for the sole purpose of guiding mankind to the straight Path of Truth. The purpose underlying Their revelation hath been to educate all men, that they may, at the hour of death, ascend, in the utmost purity and sanctity and with absolute detachment, to the throne of the Most High.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 156-157

The NATURE of the soul can never be described but the FUNCTION of the soul while we are living in a physical body and what happens to the soul after the body dies has been described in the Baha'i Writings.

 

[Trailblazer]

And then you go on to declare that Baha'u'llah wrote a lot of his OWN stuff,,,,which again bears a strong resemblence to more previously written scriptures....and that it APPEARS that what Baha'u'llah is doing is paraphrasing bibilical scriptures, in his OWN words, using his OWN pen, as you like to say.

APPEARANCES can be deceiving, especially when you really know so very little about Baha'u'llah or the HISTORY of the Baha'i Faith. The Qur'an also bears a strong resemblance to the Bible, but that does not mean that the Qur'an was not the words of Muhammad. ALL the Messengers were privy to what the previous Messengers were privy to because they were all the same Spirit of God.

In some of the research I am doing "on my own", I discover that Baha'u'llah was a highly educated, learned man and was NOT a stranger to bibilical scriptures. It ALL points to Baha'u'llah not necessarily being ALL that you CLAIM he is.

Do you really think that Baha'u'llah went to the public library to consult a Bible? He was in prison and exile for most of His mission of 40 years.

Do you think that the Bible is the be-all and the end-all of everything GOD? It is not. The Qur'an supersedes the Bible and it is much more authentic. Baha'u'llah was a Muslim so of course He knew the Qur'an backwards and forwards, but He did not COPY anything from the Qur'an or the Bible. Baha'u'llah cited the Qur'an and the Bible in The Kitáb-i-Íqán and also in Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, but He made it clear that He was citing those scriptures.

Baha'u'llah was NOT a highly educated or learned man. Because He was a Messenger of God He had innate knowledge, but He also got knowledge from God.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.The learning current amongst men I studied not; their schools I entered not. Ask of the city wherein I dwelt, that thou mayest be well assured that I am not of them who speak falsely. This is but a leaf which the winds of the will of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Praised, have stirred.””
Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57

 

[ACEofALLaces]

That was not a claim, it is my belief, but I can understand why it sounded like a claim.
There is no PROOF of the soul because the soul is a mystery of God.

The NATURE of the soul can never be described but the FUNCTION of the soul while we are living in a physical body and what happens to the soul after the body dies has been described in the Baha'i Writings.

Ahhhh, I see.....so the great architects of the Bahai faith recognize and accept that this "soul thingy" is a MYSTERY OF GOD, and that the NATURE of this soul thingy can never be described and that there is NOT PROOF of such a soul thingy.......but.....but.....but....we sure do know what its FUNCTION is....because some one WROTE about it.
Yeah right, SURE ya do <chuckle>

 

[Aupmanyav]

And if other god has a message, I think it then leads to question, what it is and is it good.

Yeah, and that is where opinions of people differ.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Do you really think that Baha'u'llah went to the public library to consult a Bible? He was in prison and exile for most of His mission of 40 years.

According to what I have read, he most certainly HAD access to most everything he needed....and that was BEFORE they caught up with him and threw him in that dark dank nasty prison.

Do you think that the Bible is the be-all and the end-all of everything GOD? It is not. The Qur'an supersedes the Bible and it is much more authentic. Baha'u'llah was a Muslim so of course He knew the Qur'an backwards and forwards, but He did not COPY anything from the Qur'an or the Bible. Baha'u'llah cited the Qur'an and the Bible in The Kitáb-i-Íqán and also in Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, but He made it clear that He was citing those scriptures.

Essentially all you are doing above is offering what amounts to excuses for why Baha'u'llah WAS so familiar with any and ALL scriptures.

Baha'u'llah was NOT a highly educated or learned man. Because He was a Messenger of God He had innate knowledge, but He also got knowledge from God..

HowEVER he was born into one of Persia's noble and privileged families. He had ACCESS to a lot of things ordinary individuals did NOT have.

I found this quote interesting: Bahá'u'lláh used his limited education to reinforce his claim to divine revelation. He argued that since he had not spent years studying the Qur'an and Arabic, how else could he be able to write as he did in Arabic? And there is no evidence to suggest that he devised his writings through his own intellectual thoughts.

So it is rather obvious that others are suspicious of Bahá'u'lláh and some of his claims and supposed attributes....not just ME.

 

[Trailblazer]

According to what I have read, he most certainly HAD access to most everything he needed....and that was BEFORE they caught up with him and threw him in that dark dank nasty prison.

So you think he read all He could of the other scriptures and memorized it and then after He got thrown in prison He wrote it all down?

I suggest you read this account of how the scriptures were revealed, which is accurate Baha'i history, chronicled by believers who actually knew Baha'u'llah:
God Passes By, pp. 137-138

Essentially all you are doing above is offering what amounts to excuses for why Baha'u'llah WAS so familiar with any and ALL scriptures.

Why would He need excuses for knowing the previous scriptures?
Why would He need excuses for knowing what God revealed to Him?

HowEVER he was born into one of Persia's noble and privileged families. He had ACCESS to a lot of things ordinary individuals did NOT have.

I found this quote interesting: Bahá'u'lláh used his limited education to reinforce his claim to divine revelation. He argued that since he had not spent years studying the Qur'an and Arabic, how else could he be able to write as he did in Arabic? And there is no evidence to suggest that he devised his writings through his own intellectual thoughts.

So it is rather obvious that others are suspicious of Bahá'u'lláh and some of his claims and supposed attributes....not just ME.

I can see there is no point discussing this with you. Obviously you found an anti-Baha'i website and you bought it lock stock and barrel... Logically speaking, how accurate do you think an ANTI-Baha'i website would be to find out the REAL history of the Baha'i Faith? Would you consult a Christian website to find out about Islam?

 

[Sheldon]

My God resurrected 2000 years ago


And I think there is evidence for his existence (unlike other Gods)

Well there is no objective evidence to support this claim.

What Exactly do you mean by “objective evidence”? under your definition, is there “objective evidence” for any historical claim? (say the claim that Alexander the Great was born in Macedonia) ?

Lets start with the best piece of evidence you think there is, in fact it is telling that theists never ever seem to do this?