Gods are a Dime a Dozen

[1213]

Read the Bible -- it's ambiguous-- or Google the Catholic-Luther controversy.

As I said. this was one of the controversies that sparked the Protestant Reformation in Europe.

The Catholic Church Teaches Salvation by Works
What was Martin Luther's view on salvation?

By what I know, the problem is that they take only small part of the whole, which is why they come to different conclusion. In short Bible teaches that forgiveness is free, doesn’t require anything really. But, it is not all, eternal life is promised for righteous, which is why person must be righteous to get it. And it doesn’t not come because of what person does, but because of what he is. And if person is righteous, he does righteous actions, not because of reward, but because he understands it is good. Works can tell what kind of person one is, that is why they are meaningful, but they are only like fruit of tree, end result, not the cause.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

 

[1213]

The God is said to be omnipotent.....a truly omnipotent God GETS what it wants....no plan needed.

Well First of all, I am NOT God....and secondly, IF this God really was ALL-KNOWING, it would already KNOW how to build it, but would KNOW, it had already BEEN built....

Sorry, I disagree with you. Why should it already have happened? All-knowing doesn’t mean everything must have happened already.

 

[1213]

But wouldn't that all be set from the start of the universe?....

I believe God had an idea/plan what He will create, before He did anything.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Sorry, I disagree with you. Why should it already have happened? All-knowing doesn’t mean everything must have happened already.

An interesting response.......I didn't say that it had already happened.....it's just that a purported ALL-KNOWING God, would KNOW it.....that's what "all-knowing" means, right?
If such a God CAN know the future, then somehow FOR that God to "know" the future, the way I see it, the "future" for the God has already happened...otherwise HOW could the "all knowing" God KNOW what's gonna happen in the future?
I realize it's a bizarre belief....it's NOT what I happen to believe, but it's what those who ARE believers try to lay on me.

 

[Valjean]

I believe I can assure you that God believes He is God.

How do you know that? I can't even see why you believe in this God, much less what he believes.

 

[lukethethird]

I believe God had an idea/plan what He will create, before He did anything.

Why believe?

 

[Sheldon]

I believe I can assure you that God believes He is God.

Circular reasoning fallacy.

 

[Sheldon]

I believe you are right. He believes He is the highest power.

Another circular reasoning fallacy.

 

[Sheldon]

All-knowing doesn’t mean everything must have happened already.

All knowing means it would know what is going to happen, obviously, which would make all choices illusionary.

 

[1213]

All knowing means it would know what is going to happen, obviously, which would make all choices illusionary.

I think that is ridiculous idea. Why would it make them illusionary?

 

[1213]

Why believe?

Because I don’t see any reason to believe He just randomly created things. There is order in this world and even before people had rejected God, He had prepared a way for people to return to Him. He had decided in the beginning what He will do when people rejected Him and what He will do after that. I think that is planning.

 

[1213]

...
If such a God CAN know the future, then somehow FOR that God to "know" the future, the way I see it, the "future" for the God has already happened...otherwise HOW could the "all knowing" God KNOW what's gonna happen in the future?...

Ok, I can accept that for God, all has already happened. But for us all has not yet happened. That means also something to me.

Knowing that everything will go as designed or planned, does not mean there is no plan. And I believe God has a plan, because He doesn’t act randomly, He has goals and things that He wants to happen.

 

[Sheldon]

I think that is ridiculous idea. Why would it make them illusionary?

You think a notion you don't understand is ridiculous?

If a deity knew what we were going to do before we did it, then choices would be an illusion. There are other problems with omniscience of course. <HERE>

 

[lukethethird]

Because I don’t see any reason to believe He just randomly created things. There is order in this world and even before people had rejected God, He had prepared a way for people to return to Him. He had decided in the beginning what He will do when people rejected Him and what He will do after that. I think that is planning.

Planning is a human construct that you assign to your God, makes no sense.

 

[1213]

...
If a deity knew what we were going to do before we did it, then choices would be an illusion....

No, it would not be. God can know us so well that He knows what we will choose and it does not mean that we didn’t make the choice freely on our own.

 

[lukethethird]

No, it would not be. God can know us so well that He knows what we will choose and it does not mean that we didn’t make the choice freely on our own.

And you know this because you are the smartest person alive.

 

[Muffled]

Atheist then.

I believe He believes in His own theism.