1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Godless

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    15,513
    Ratings:
    +10,954
    Religion:
    None
    Respecter of persons? This is material for another thread but i will just mention massacres in war, childhood leukemia, the mosquito, life span, the futility of prayer, rape, theft, slavery, murder. If there is a creator god who respected humanity do you really think he would create stuff like that?

    Unconditional love is just a phrase bandied about by religious people to hype their religion

    So you are saying that all other human beings except bible believers are immoral?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2018
    Messages:
    804
    Ratings:
    +261
    Religion:
    Follower (and Writer) of the Mune Shinri
    It's not to say atheists don't have families, and relationships, and romances. They do on occasion. Let me put it this way. What do an atheist do on Sunday? Well some spend time with their families being humanists in an actual sense. But I wouldn't consider these people godless. Why?

    "...Whenever two or three are gathered together, thou are in the midst of them."

    It's not about faith but relationships. If we're looking at a true godless person we need someone who not only spits on the church but doesn't really care about family and friends. Who has a family, but doesn't really love them. We're looking at a certain sort of person.

    What do this person do on Sundays? Work, or shop. Making stores that would otherwise close stay open. Or fish. Or golf. But those two would be a love of nature, so let's strike them unless they do so just to be alone.

    A godless person does everything to be alone. But then wonders why they feel so messed up. They have a family, but don't love their wife, so they think having an affair might spice things up. They're searching for something they should already have. They participate in political rallies using words like "love trumps hate" but they not only have no love for the crowd they are with, but so loathe their political opponents that they throw milkshakes, rocks, or bricks at their opponents. Smash cars, loot, and destroy whatever they can't have, as happens in a full riot.

    This is in fact the essence of a godless person. They're lost. Their home is a wreck, their job is either all the time or not at all, they're seeking other people to fill their life and a sense of something beyond themselves but they can't even recognize this need, so they turn to gurus and self-help and addictions, and their first instinct when reacting to others is to take and if they can't take they wreck.

    There isn't any joy in the lives of the godless, so they go out of their way to ruin other people's lives, kinda like the Grinch who thinks by taking all the stuff of others they can make them just as bitter. This is what we mean by loveless darkness.

    No, ChristineM we are not saying this. As I have tried to tell you repeatedly, any of a number of real religions brings connection, purpose, and a sense of love. It is NOT about club membership esp not Bible club membership, but it is very much about being in a legit religion and not a cult, and I declare the sort of humanism that truly values human company a legit religion. What is not, is the sort of angry at the world atheism that tries to belittle theists or talk others out of their faiths. There are plenty of agnostics that manage to live decent lives, who manage to have a sense of purpose from the people in their life. But people at war with others are the definition of godless. It feels like you're trying to pick a fight here.
     
    #22 Samantha Rinne, Jun 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  3. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    8,714
    Ratings:
    +1,446
    Religion:
    Light Impressed with Love
    nope, i'm saying that when something isn't done in compassion, without love, it isn't going to work because it pits one against another. if people aren't going to share resources equitably, then there is going to be adversity, competition. it's a no brainer.


    this thread wasn't created with atheists in mind. it was created in the idea that unconditional love doesn't base its decisions in regards to economics and egos. it should be based on need.
     
  4. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    15,513
    Ratings:
    +10,954
    Religion:
    None
    FYI, atheists... All atheists are human beings

    FYI not all faiths hold their sabbeth on sunday, two other faiths that share the same god as christians use friday and saturday as their sabbeth day

    FYI, rubbish .you say spits on the church, who spits on something they dont care about? And of course human beings care about friends and family, it is a human (and many other mammals) condition to care about friends and family.

    FYI, they would do whatever they wanted to do on your sabbeth, just as they do on Saturdays.

    FYI, more rubbish, a godless person enjoys company just as much as one who needs a god for company, only difference is a godless person chooses to be with people and not the imaginings of bronze age people.

    FYI, the number of affairs and consequently the divorce rate is higher (also teen pregnancy and sdi rate) in christian areas of the usa.

    FYI, ahh, i see you know about anti abortion rallies

    FYI total rubbish based on deliberate ignorance of any and every human being not in your club!

    FYI .I am betting i and many other godless people enjoy life far more than many of the dour religious folk who try to define or lie about the godless peoples lives that they know nothing about.
     
  5. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    15,513
    Ratings:
    +10,954
    Religion:
    None

    And what makes you think a "godless" person does not have compassion or love for other human beings?

    This thread was deliberately targeting your own interpretation of godless people, i.e. those who have no truck with selected verses from the bible. That group you target includes about 1/2 of the worlds populated and that 1/2 includes atheists.

    And i as one of that excluded 1/2 of the population have been presenting the fact that one does not need a particular (or any) god belief to be a compassionate and loving human being
     
  6. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    8,714
    Ratings:
    +1,446
    Religion:
    Light Impressed with Love
    i'm equating god with that which is divine. they are synonyms


    love is divine. that is what makes humans god, to be loving is divinity manifested, makes them ONE with god, whole.


    Revelation 21:17
    And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.


    some jewish people know them as tzaddicks
     
  7. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    151,320
    Ratings:
    +42,886
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    Another view is that there are no gods.
    Good & evil are concepts we humans come up with.
    And we embody both.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    15,513
    Ratings:
    +10,954
    Religion:
    None
    Sure a god is devine, in the mind of those who think that way, thats not what the wording of the OP implied

    Love is love, no need for a god. A mother loves for her children for example needs no god.

    Revelation irrelevant.
     
  9. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    8,714
    Ratings:
    +1,446
    Religion:
    Light Impressed with Love

    i didn't speak of god as anything other than something related to a conscious behavior. some have become conditioned to the idea that god is something other than something about self. but in this case, discussion, god isn't something that is exclusive to one vs some otherness.
     
  10. Samana Johann

    Samana Johann Restricted by request

    Joined:
    May 7, 2019
    Messages:
    728
    Ratings:
    +175
    Religion:
    Dhamma-Vinaya
    By day shines the sun;
    by night, the moon;
    in armor, the warrior;
    in jhana, the brahman.
    But all day & all night,
    every day & every night,
    the Awakened One shines
    in splendor.​
     
  11. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    15,513
    Ratings:
    +10,954
    Religion:
    None

    Yes that conscious behaviour was love, let me quote from your OP
    if the bible states that god is love and light, then is the godless darkness and loveless
    And i have stated repeatedly in several different ways that one does not need god to love .i.e. the godless are not darkness and loveless
     
  12. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    8,714
    Ratings:
    +1,446
    Religion:
    Light Impressed with Love
    in the quote love is equated with something divine.

    i personally don't care if you like/dislike the language, bibles, or christians. i quote from many sources, and yet you obviously have a problem with the idea of love being a sacred thing.


    if any focus was being made towards anyone, it would be towards those who hold the NT in high esteem and if anyone would be offended it would be those who practice idolatry.

    maybe that is the issue for you? epeolatry?


    they're words, only humans give them qualities of good or bad.
     
    #32 Fool, Jun 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  13. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    4,238
    Ratings:
    +3,965
    Religion:
    None, a humanist who doesn't even worship humans
    Just....Wow! You really do not know anything at all about those who don't believe like you do, do you? I have never seen so many silly and false statements of supposed "fact" in a single post as are in this one. Beginning, for example with whether atheists "have families and relationships. They do on occasion!" Do you really think that most atheists were found under cabbage leaves and never get involved with others, in good, solid, loving relationships? Where on earth did you dig up that canard?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    7,704
    Ratings:
    +3,086
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    One can hold that view if they so choose to.

    That view, could also just be part of the darkness we all face, having to make the choice to acknowledge that God is the source of creation.

    Regards Tony
     
  15. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    15,513
    Ratings:
    +10,954
    Religion:
    None
    So not love then but something nasty and hatefull designed to exclude those who dont bow down to the christian god.

    Yes i do have an issue with christians claiming humanity for themselves and denying that humanity to human beings. Love is not sacred or devine, the cherry picked fraction of love you reserve for your god may be sacred to you. Have fun with that.

    Are you now accusing non christians of idolatry? Sheesh.

    And you also seem to think insults bolster your cause... Just because you cannot understand any other view but your own limited mindset that is no excuse for insults.

    Yes funny really, humans invented words and gave them meanings, not to be abused.
     
  16. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    151,320
    Ratings:
    +42,886
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    I don't really choose to see it thus.
    It's how things appear to be.
    I see an awful lot of "darkness" coming from those who see God behind it all.
    This heathen has never been inspired to kill the infidel, murder abortion docs,
    wage a violent crusade, hold an auto da fe, enable child rapists, fleece the
    flock for my private jet, deny abortion rights, impose religion upon others, etc.

    We're all just humans, each an individual, to be judged on our own merits.
    I don't see your ilk as superior, smarter, more enlightened, or more ethical.


    And now that I think about it, I don't even have a private or even shared jet.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    4,238
    Ratings:
    +3,965
    Religion:
    None, a humanist who doesn't even worship humans
    Love is not a "sacred thing," any more than are fear, hunger, suspicion or anger. They are all emotions, which are the outputs from the algorithms that we evolved to ensure we survived to produce new generations. Emotions are much simpler motivators for action than long printouts of "do this, then that, then repeat twice..."

    Funny! What I'm describing is, in fact, much more marvelous, much more majestic and awe-inspiring (if only you could see it) than your notion that "love is a sacred thing." For one thing, that phrase actually has not real meaning.
     
  18. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    8,714
    Ratings:
    +1,446
    Religion:
    Light Impressed with Love
    i'm not bowing to any christian god, or hindu god, or zorastrian god. i'm bowing to the idea and ideal of love as a "conscious" motivation.

    and i'm not asking you to kowtow to anything. no mention has ever been made toward atheism in this thread by myself but you have insisted it does.
     
    #38 Fool, Jun 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
  19. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    8,714
    Ratings:
    +1,446
    Religion:
    Light Impressed with Love
    problem with fear, hunger, suspicion, and anger is that they aren't creative or productive emotions. they're reactions to negative things that keep a person in survival mode. people moved by compassion are driven to help those in need at their own expense. so they may all be emotions but they aren't necessarily needed any longer; when there is no imminent need to survive.

    when nirvana is attained, the exhale or blowing out, there is no need to survive because it is understood that this energy cannot be created/destroyed but it will transform.



    Humanism is a rational philosophy informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by compassion. Affirming the dignity of each human being, it supports the maximization of individual liberty and opportunity consonant with social and planetary responsibility. It advocates the extension of participatory democracy and the expansion of the open society, standing for human rights and social justice.


    https://americanhumanist.org/what-is-humanism/definition-of-humanism/
     
    #39 Fool, Jun 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
  20. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    3,057
    Ratings:
    +2,162
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Humans are quick to war.
    Religion is frequently a convencient excuse and worst case an actual motivator.

    For example, I don't think ISIS would have virtually burned Syria and Iraq to the ground, if it wasn't for their religious islamist beliefs.
     
Loading...