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Featured Godless is lack of Virtues.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by TransmutingSoul, Mar 31, 2022.

  1. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    Ditto.

    Also

    No need to clear anything up for me, I know I was offering metephor and then followed up with and explanation of what that means.

    Regards Tony
     
  2. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Where does he claim that atheists are the opposite, death, etc etc you claimed in the OP?

    And why are you quoting the Qur'an when I was speaking of evidence? Do you really think its an escape strategy? You dont even understand anything from the Qur'an.

    Your fallacy is that you will quote anything from where ever you find in the whole world to proselytise your own theology. This verse you quoted is speaking of God being the Nurrus samawathi fil ardh. Mate. God is the creator of the universe. God is the light. That does not those who dont believe in God are darkness and death. Thats absurd.

    What you are doing is making a statement alienate humans. You are imposing your false ideas onto a verse does not say anything you wish it to say.
     
  3. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    The OP did not say that.

    Regards Tony
     
  4. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    The OP did not offer your thoughts.

    Regards Tony
     
  5. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Thats exactly what you offered.

    "Thus Godless is the exact opposite, it is darkness and death."

    Prior to quoting scripture you have no clue of Tony, you should know that by default, God exists, and there is nothing called Godless. Humans may be Godless, but they can still be full of life and Gods so called "light" will always be there.
     
  6. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    The OP is not saying what you infer is being said.

    It is not saying an atheist is Godless.

    Regards Tony
     
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  7. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    That is also demonstrated in the metephor given in the OP, that there is also no evil, only the lack of good.

    Regards Tony
     
  8. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    Only by the practice of virtue, can people become virtuous. This principle was asserted, continents apart, by both Aristotle and Confucius, millennia ago.

    What help God or the Gods can offer us in this endeavour, is a question I won’t try to answer here; except to say that humanity appears to need all the help it can get.
     
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  9. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    And many who follow no source are equally good.
     
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  10. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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    Except it's demonstrably not true, theists and apologists have been using the argument from morality forever, and there is abundant research to demonstrate that atheists are at least as moral as theists measured using the same metric.

    You're basically saying anyone who doesn't share your belief in some deity is immoral, you might want to consider how your platitudes about peace and inclusion look to any atheists reading that. I'm sure the torturers and executioners of the Inquisition prayed and cried for the heretics they tortured and burned, and wished fervently for their repentance as well.
     
    #90 Sheldon, Apr 1, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2022
  11. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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    Of course, they would still be entirely subjective though.

    Morality is the ability to differentiate between right and wrong behaviours and actions, our personal morals are entirely subjective, though we can usually anticipate a broad a consensus on some prohibitions, these precede religions of course, and likely have their precursors in evolution.

    Ted Bundy loved to rape and murder women, I hate Fascism. You are using facile platitudes. Love is a word we use to attempt to describe a wide range of complex human emotions. Some people love Marmite, some hate it, using your metric that alone would mean I lack virtue and am immoral. FYI the stuff smells like mouldy old socks.

    Vapid woolly and facile platitude. best come to terms with the fact that death is the price of admission for this ride. One day The party will go on and I won't be there, then it's probably going to be like before I was born and my brain started storing memories and became conscious, or Hello Darkness my old Friend...

    It's so facile it is flawed to the point of being meaningless, as I explained.

    Which has absolutely nothing to do with religion, or it's doctrines. As is amply demonstrated by the fact atheists both love and hate and are moral and immoral in much the same way theists are, but without the belief in any deity, and without the weight of any pernicious religious dogma they feel obliged to obey.
     
    #91 Sheldon, Apr 1, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2022
  12. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    No, I did not say that, neither did the OP.

    Regards Tony
     
  13. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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    That's not what you said though?

    Hmm

    The inference there couldn't be clearer.

    Even though you just said all the virtues are in godliness? I also didn't need any religion to tell me this, nor does any atheist. Atheists have been demonstrated to be at least as moral as theists on any objective metric.
     
  14. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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    Given the percentage of humanity that are theists, I cannot help but draw the inference there is no evidence any deity is helping, at all. What I see globally is pretty much what I'd expect if one species of evolved apes evolved the abilities humans have.

    I think people have the right to believe what they want, or not, but inviolate and universal human rights are our best hope for a peaceful existence. I'm not holding my breath...
     
  15. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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    You may not have meant that, but it is what you said:

     
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  16. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    No assumption required, both the title and OP are saying that.

    Of course he has backpedaled quite a lot but that does not change the wording of the title and the OP.
     
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  17. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I did and i am insulted, even those of your own faith are not happy with your OP. Why not just admit your bias, it is after all the godly thing to do
     
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  18. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    Doesn't follow.


    You make a bunch of declarations from a faith perspective and then assume them as factual. Then wish to apply them from a context where such faith isn't present.
     
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  19. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Everyone is choosing what they consider to be virtue for themselves. Even those who 'blindly' follow the proscriptions of other have the option to stop, and are therefor choosing not to exercise that option.

    Many people use the ideal old 'God' to clarify and a embody the virtues they perceive to be of greatest importance. But it's not a requisite necessity. Many also are able to grasp and pursue virtue on their own, without the use of a god ideal.

    Sadly many of us do not give this area of thought the consideration it warrants, and so tend to respond more by emotion than by ethical idealism. But such is the state of man.
     
  20. tas8831

    tas8831 Well-Known Member

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    Awfully simplistic, no?
    Borderline... child-like?
     
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