"God Will no Longer be 'He' or 'Lord' in Sweden"

[Skwim]

"The Church of Sweden is changing its language so that God will no longer take on the human characteristic of "he." And while they're at it, "Lord" will be dropped as well.

After an eight-day discussion about updating a church handbook that offers guidelines on now to conduct services, the decision to make God gender-neutral was made yesterday. Church of Sweden Archbishop Antje Jackelén, a woman, says that a gender-neutral God is something that the church has been talking about since a 1986 conference, and "we know that God is beyond our gender determinations, God is not human.”
source
​

While it's highly unlikely any Christian, Jew, or Muslim here will go for this, isn't there a bit of common sense behind it all? Think of it; "My god has a penis." Or, my god has a vagina." Does this really make sense to you?

.

 

[Enoch07]

"The Church of Sweden is changing its language so that God will no longer take on the human characteristic of "he." And while they're at it, "Lord" will be dropped as well.

After an eight-day discussion about updating a church handbook that offers guidelines on now to conduct services, the decision to make God gender-neutral was made yesterday. Church of Sweden Archbishop Antje Jackelén, a woman, says that a gender-neutral God is something that the church has been talking about since a 1986 conference, and "we know that God is beyond our gender determinations, God is not human.”
source​

While it's highly unlikely any Christian, Jew, or Muslim here will go for this, isn't there a bit of common sense behind it all? Think of it; "My god has a penis." Or, my god has a vagina." Does this really make sense to you?

So ‘He or she’ versus ‘they’ | Oxford Dictionaries technically for those that don't know God's gender they should say he/she, or, he or she, etc.

But for those that believe in Jesus. The answer is quite simple. Jesus referred to God as his Father.

John 14 8-21

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

So going off that I'd say God is masculine so "he" is just fine. Gender identity is not determined by primary or secondary sex characteristics as any trans person will tell you. God has asked us to refer to Him as a he, as told to us by Jesus. So that means He identifies as male. If you truly respect a person's right to be called by their preferred pronoun then "he/him/his" is the only grammatically and politically correct way to refer to God.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I thought there already was a gender-neutral translation published.

There was a big stink made about it I think in the early 80s.

 

[Skwim]

So ‘He or she’ versus ‘they’ | Oxford Dictionaries technically for those that don't know God's gender they should say he/she, or, he or she, etc.

But for those that believe in Jesus. The answer is quite simple. Jesus referred to God as his Father.

John 14 8-21

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

So going off that I'd say God is masculine so "he" is just fine. Gender identity is not determined by primary or secondary sex characteristics as any trans person will tell you. God has asked us to refer to Him as a he, as told to us by Jesus. So that means He identifies as male. If you truly respect a person's right to be called by their preferred pronoun then "he/him/his" is the only grammatically and politically correct way to refer to God.

"Although God is referred to in the Hebrew Bible with masculine imagery and grammatical forms, Jewish philosophy does not attribute to God either sex or gender.

"G-d has no body, no genitalia, therefore the very idea that G-d is male or female is patently absurd. We refer to G-d using masculine terms simply for convenience's sake, because Hebrew has no neutral gender; G-d is no more male than a table is." Judaism 101. "The fact that we always refer to God as 'He' is also not meant to imply that the concept of sex or gender applies to God." Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, The Aryeh Kaplan Reader, Mesorah Publications (1983), p. 144

At times, Jewish aggadic literature and Jewish mysticism do treat God as gendered, though these are not uniformly masculine or feminine.

____________________________________________________________


God has traditionally been described using masculine terms in Christian scripture and theology. While this has sometimes given rise to the idea that Christians consider God to be male,the majority of Christian denominations (with the notable exception of Mormonism) accept a God who transcends gender.[1][2][3]

[1] David Bordwell, 2002, Catechism of the Catholic Church,Continuum International Publishing ISBN 978-0-86012-324-8 page 84

[2] "Deum humanam sexuum transcendere distinctionem. Ille nec vir est nec femina, Ille est Deus." From "Pater per Filium revelatus", Catechismus Catholicae Ecclesiae. (Citta del Vaticano: Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 1993): 1-2-1-1-2 ¶ 239. (Official English translation Archived March 3, 2013, at the Wayback Machine.)

[3] An inclusive-language lectionary: Readings for Year B (Revised ed.). National Council of Churches. p. 12​

The first words of the Old Testament are B're**** bara Elohim — "In the beginning God created."[4] The verb bara (created) agrees with a subject with a plural, nongendered noun. Elohim is used to refer to both genders and is plural; it has been used to refer to both Goddess (in 1 Kings 11:33), and God (1 Kings 11:31; Yahweh, the Elohim of Israel - Yahweh Elohim). The masculine gender in Hebrew can be used for objects with no inherent gender, as well as objects with masculine natural gender, and so it is widely used, attributing the masculine gender to most things.[citation needed] However, the noun used for the Spirit of God in Genesis—"Ruach"—is distinctly feminine, as is the verb used to describe Her activity during creation—"rachaph"—translated as "fluttereth." This verb is used only one other place in the Bible (Deuteronomy 32:11) where it describes the action of a mother eagle towards her nest. The consistent use of feminine nouns and verbs to refer to the Spirit of God in the Torah, as well as the rest of the Jewish Scriptures, indicates that at least this aspect of Elohim was consistently perceived as Feminine

-------------------------------------------------

The gender of the Holy Spirit has been the object of some discussion in recent years, questioning whether the Holy Spirit should be referred to as "he", "she" or "it". To some extent this derives from the gender of the noun used in different languages. In the original Hebrew of the Old Testament, the word for spirit is "rūaḥ" is a feminine noun. The word for spirit in New Testament Greek is pneuma, a neuter noun. In Latin, the common language of the Roman Catholic Church, the word for spirit is masculine.

While scholars generally agree that grammatical gender is not necessarily correlative to personal gender, if by "gender" is meant grammatical gender, then the gender of the Holy Spirit varies according to the language used. Thus the grammatical gender of the word "spirit" is generally feminine in the Semitic languages such as Hebrew (רוּחַ, rūaḥ), in which the Old Testament was originally written, and neuter (πνεῦμα, pneûma, pneuma) in Greek, in which the rest of the New Testament was written. However, the word for "spirit" is masculine in other languages unrelated to the original writing of the Bible, such as Latin (spiritus) and in Latin-derived languages, as also, for instance, in German (Geist).

Discovering Biblical Equality maintains that viewing God in masculine terms is merely a way in which we speak of God in figurative language. The author reiterates that God is spirit and that the Bible presents God through personification and anthropomorphism which reflects only a likeness to God.
“ God is not a sexual being, either male or female─something that was considered to be true in ancient Near Eastern religion. He even speaks specifically against such a view in Num 23:19, where the text has Balaam saying God is not a man [ish], and in Deut 4:15-16, in which he warns against creating a graven image in "the likeness of male or female." But though he is not a male, the "formless" deity (Deut 4:15) has chosen to reveal himself largely in masculine ways.
All sources: Wikipedia

.​

 

[Skwim]

I thought there already was a gender-neutral translation published.

There was a big stink made about it I think in the early 80s.

Gender-neutral Bible versions

NJB New Jerusalem Bible (1985) [Roman Catholic]

ICB International Children’s Bible (1986), simplified NCV

NAB New American Bible (1988) [Roman Catholic]

NCV New Century Version (1987, 1991)

NRSV New Revised Standard Version (1989)

GNB(1992) Good News Bible: Today’s English Version Second Edition (1992)

CEV Contemporary English Version (1995)

GW God’s Word (1995)

NIrV(1995) New International Reader’s Version (1995)

NIVI New International Version Inclusive Language Edition (1995, 1996)

NLT New Living Translation (1996)

NLT revised New Living Translation revised edition (1996)

TNIV Today’s New International Version (NT in 2002, entire Bible in 2005)
source

.​

 

[Enoch07]

"Although God is referred to in the Hebrew Bible with masculine imagery and grammatical forms, Jewish philosophy does not attribute to God either sex or gender.

"G-d has no body, no genitalia, therefore the very idea that G-d is male or female is patently absurd. We refer to G-d using masculine terms simply for convenience's sake, because Hebrew has no neutral gender; G-d is no more male than a table is." Judaism 101. "The fact that we always refer to God as 'He' is also not meant to imply that the concept of sex or gender applies to God." Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, The Aryeh Kaplan Reader, Mesorah Publications (1983), p. 144

At times, Jewish aggadic literature and Jewish mysticism do treat God as gendered, though these are not uniformly masculine or feminine.

____________________________________________________________


God has traditionally been described using masculine terms in Christian scripture and theology. While this has sometimes given rise to the idea that Christians consider God to be male,the majority of Christian denominations (with the notable exception of Mormonism) accept a God who transcends gender.[1][2][3]

[1] David Bordwell, 2002, Catechism of the Catholic Church,Continuum International Publishing ISBN 978-0-86012-324-8 page 84

[2] "Deum humanam sexuum transcendere distinctionem. Ille nec vir est nec femina, Ille est Deus." From "Pater per Filium revelatus", Catechismus Catholicae Ecclesiae. (Citta del Vaticano: Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 1993): 1-2-1-1-2 ¶ 239. (Official English translation Archived March 3, 2013, at the Wayback Machine.)

[3] An inclusive-language lectionary: Readings for Year B (Revised ed.). National Council of Churches. p. 12​

The first words of the Old Testament are B're**** bara Elohim — "In the beginning God created."[4] The verb bara (created) agrees with a subject with a plural, nongendered noun.[citation needed] Elohim is used to refer to both genders and is plural; it has been used to refer to both Goddess (in 1 Kings 11:33), and God (1 Kings 11:31; Yahweh, the Elohim of Israel - Yahweh Elohim). The masculine gender in Hebrew can be used for objects with no inherent gender, as well as objects with masculine natural gender, and so it is widely used, attributing the masculine gender to most things.[citation needed] However, the noun used for the Spirit of God in Genesis—"Ruach"—is distinctly feminine, as is the verb used to describe Her activity during creation—"rachaph"—translated as "fluttereth." This verb is used only one other place in the Bible (Deuteronomy 32:11) where it describes the action of a mother eagle towards her nest. The consistent use of feminine nouns and verbs to refer to the Spirit of God in the Torah, as well as the rest of the Jewish Scriptures, indicates that at least this aspect of Elohim was consistently perceived as Feminine

-------------------------------------------------

The gender of the Holy Spirit has been the object of some discussion in recent years, questioning whether the Holy Spirit should be referred to as "he", "she" or "it". To some extent this derives from the gender of the noun used in different languages. In the original Hebrew of the Old Testament, the word for spirit is "rūaḥ" is a feminine noun. The word for spirit in New Testament Greek is pneuma, a neuter noun. In Latin, the common language of the Roman Catholic Church, the word for spirit is masculine.

While scholars generally agree that grammatical gender is not necessarily correlative to personal gender, if by "gender" is meant grammatical gender, then the gender of the Holy Spirit varies according to the language used. Thus the grammatical gender of the word "spirit" is generally feminine in the Semitic languages such as Hebrew (רוּחַ, rūaḥ), in which the Old Testament was originally written, and neuter (πνεῦμα, pneûma, pneuma) in Greek, in which the rest of the New Testament was written. However, the word for "spirit" is masculine in other languages unrelated to the original writing of the Bible, such as Latin (spiritus) and in Latin-derived languages, as also, for instance, in German (Geist).

Discovering Biblical Equality maintains that viewing God in masculine terms is merely a way in which we speak of God in figurative language. The author reiterates that God is spirit and that the Bible presents God through personification and anthropomorphism which reflects only a likeness to God.
“ God is not a sexual being, either male or female─something that was considered to be true in ancient Near Eastern religion. He even speaks specifically against such a view in Num 23:19, where the text has Balaam saying God is not a man [ish], and in Deut 4:15-16, in which he warns against creating a graven image in "the likeness of male or female." But though he is not a male, the "formless" deity (Deut 4:15) has chosen to reveal himself largely in masculine ways.
All sources: Wikipedia

.​

Well Jewish people can use whatever pronoun they feel fits.

But Jesus clearly identifies God as masculine. So Christians should have no problem when using masculine pronouns for God.

I'll pick this out of my post just in case you glanced over it.

Gender identity is not determined by primary or secondary sex characteristics as any trans person will tell you.

God can identify as any gender he wants. Primary and secondary sex characteristics don't play a role in gender identity. It's extremely transphobic to say otherwise.

Since God has asked us to identify him as male. Any other gender pronoun used is misgendering God, and potentially a hate speech/crime. Which can even cause legal issues if you misgender someone in Canada or New York in the U.S.

Bill C-16 in Canada:

Canada to introduce new laws against transgender discrimination

And

New NYC Laws Prohibit Discrimination Against Transgender Community up to a $250,000 fine of found to be intentionally misgendering someone in N.Y.

 

[Kemosloby]

It's only Sweden, they are sort of weird anyway.

 

[Muslim-UK]

GOD is genderless. We use HE when talking about Him out of respect.

 

[Father Heathen]

So ‘He or she’ versus ‘they’ | Oxford Dictionaries technically for those that don't know God's gender they should say he/she, or, he or she, etc.

But for those that believe in Jesus. The answer is quite simple. Jesus referred to God as his Father.

John 14 8-21

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

So going off that I'd say God is masculine so "he" is just fine. Gender identity is not determined by primary or secondary sex characteristics as any trans person will tell you. God has asked us to refer to Him as a he, as told to us by Jesus. So that means He identifies as male. If you truly respect a person's right to be called by their preferred pronoun then "he/him/his" is the only grammatically and politically correct way to refer to God.

Attempting to anthropomorphize the concept of god is one of the many things that make religion so goofy.

 

[Father Heathen]

GOD is genderless. We use HE when talking about Him out of respect.

...and SHE be disrespectful? Do tell...

 

[Vee]

"The Church of Sweden is changing its language so that God will no longer take on the human characteristic of "he." And while they're at it, "Lord" will be dropped as well.

After an eight-day discussion about updating a church handbook that offers guidelines on now to conduct services, the decision to make God gender-neutral was made yesterday. Church of Sweden Archbishop Antje Jackelén, a woman, says that a gender-neutral God is something that the church has been talking about since a 1986 conference, and "we know that God is beyond our gender determinations, God is not human.”
source​

While it's highly unlikely any Christian, Jew, or Muslim here will go for this, isn't there a bit of common sense behind it all? Think of it; "My god has a penis." Or, my god has a vagina." Does this really make sense to you?

.

In the Bible Jesus refers to God as a He, he talks about his father, not his mother. That is probably because back in those days women had no authority whatsoever. If he had portraited God as a woman or gender neutral no one would have listened to him. Since God is spiritual, he doesn't have a physical body so gender shouldn't apply, but we're used to identify God as a male and I don't see why that should be a problem.
When I first read about this on the news the first thought in my mind was, don't these people have anything better to worry about? The world is imploding all around us and people are worried about God's gender? Seriously?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Think of it; "My god has a penis." Or, my god has a vagina." Does this really make sense to you?

To me, it's not so much "my god has a penis"/"my goddess has a vagina" but more along the lines of "gods project a male presence" and goddesses a female.

 

[Grandliseur]

​

While it's highly unlikely any Christian, Jew, or Muslim here will go for this, isn't there a bit of common sense behind it all? Think of it; "My god has a penis." Or, my god has a vagina." Does this really make sense to you?

.

Well, since God isn't human in any sense of the word, his body parts are quite another subject that humans are not privy to. As to God being male or female, or something entirely else, there is this to say. Things on earth were modeled to some extend after the heavenly pattern. When we read about the creation of man, God said to someone at his side, 'Let us create man in our image.'

While in heaven it seems that gender is a function not of the 'physical body,' and instead being a function of the position one is performing at the time, God has revealed to us that his function always is as we perceive the male versus the female - according to the pattern transmitted in creation.

Others may do what they want, and for some time it shall be permitted. Then what God disapproves of shall be erased, and he takes us back to square one of what his desires are.

The same thing with the homosexual society that is spreading over the globe, the fact of its globalization is only a sign of the end being imminent. All things point to a near end of these things, which, of course, unbelievers shall rally around and tell us how long this has been said.

When I hear stuff like that, all I see is another nail in the coffin of our present world. There are not many nails left for sure. What do you think is being prepared with all the various volcanoes getting ready around the globe! Attention should be paid to this, and to the political situation between the world powers, and the fuses (NK, Iran, Israel, Syria, etc.) of WWIII.

 

[Liu]

If only that was that easy in other languages...
Swedish has a gender-neutral pronoun (a loanword from Finnish) which is, as far as I heard, also in wide-spread use since several decades. So it has 4 singular pronouns, female, male, either/neutral, and inanimate things.
Also, the language only has 2 grammatical "genders", namely animate and inanimate, so there is no issue with congruence.

English for example has "they" and "it" as neutral pronouns, but with certain problems ("they" being also plural, and "it" implying something inanimate). Other pronouns exist (e.g. xe, ne, ey, and as a special case also shi), but don't seem to be very common in actual use.

And in my native language, German, grammatical gender is so complex that it's near impossible to even intentionally add some kind of gender-neutral pronoun and I have never heard anyone use one in actual speech.

From a theological point of view, I can't speak for the religion in question here but in my own, it's common that deities are considered to be beyond gender dualities.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

In most languages it is very difficult to write or speak in a genderless way. however that was not the case in Koine Greek.

Most Christian Scripture was written at a time, and has since been translated, by societies that were male dominant, and with the fall back pronoun of He.

English today definitely needs suitable forms of address, and additional suitable pronouns, to make genderless speech and writing possible.
God, as a word, does not imply a gender. However Lord Does. and Your Majesty does not.
We simply do not have a genderless version of Lord or Lady.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

GOD is genderless. We use HE when talking about Him out of respect.

Why would you consider "he" respectful but "she" not?

 

[SalixIncendium]

GOD is genderless. We use HE when talking about Him out of respect.

*blinks*

*blinks again*

 

[Liu]

In most languages it is very difficult to write or speak in a genderless way. however that was not the case in Koine Greek.

I'm surprised. I know a bit Ancient Greek (and Koine therefore, too), and I would know of no way, and certainly not of an easy way at least, to speak in a genderless way in it.
Admittedly, some of its masculine words can also be used for females (e.g. the word theos can also be used in reference to goddesses), but that would be rather the exception, and still not exactly what I'd call gender-neutral, especially since the word would then have a feminine article.
And sure, subject pronouns can often be omitted in it - object pronouns however not, and they are gendered, too, especially those used in the Koine variety. Even adjectives express gender (and not just grammatical gender) in Greek, unlike in English, and even names have gendered articles.
So that doesn't seem like what I'd think of in regards to a language that makes speaking in a genderless way easy.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

"The Church of Sweden is changing its language so that God will no longer take on the human characteristic of "he." And while they're at it, "Lord" will be dropped as well.

After an eight-day discussion about updating a church handbook that offers guidelines on now to conduct services, the decision to make God gender-neutral was made yesterday. Church of Sweden Archbishop Antje Jackelén, a woman, says that a gender-neutral God is something that the church has been talking about since a 1986 conference, and "we know that God is beyond our gender determinations, God is not human.”
source​

While it's highly unlikely any Christian, Jew, or Muslim here will go for this, isn't there a bit of common sense behind it all? Think of it; "My god has a penis." Or, my god has a vagina." Does this really make sense to you?

.

A gendered god is one of the most obvious reasons why god is a social construct. Ancient patriarchal societies created "male" gods, which was nothing more than a reflection of their own social structure.

 

[Skwim]

It's only Sweden, they are sort of weird anyway.

Think Sweden is weird, take a look at the US of A

.​