1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

God: Trinity or Unity?

Discussion in 'Monotheism' started by BenFranklinFan, Dec 11, 2018.

?

Is God a Trinity or a Unity?

Poll closed Jun 11, 2019.
  1. Unity

    100.0%
  2. Trinity

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. 101G

    101G Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    296
    Ratings:
    +21
    Religion:
    Holy
    thanks for the reply, but incorrect. there is only one person in verse 1. understand, the revelation of Jesus the Christ, WHO IS GOD HIMSELF. there is no agent, God himself came, supportive scripture, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you."

    ok cataway, who came? "GOD". end of story. now, who sent his angel? answer, remember the angel who was sent said, Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done."

    so it was the Lord ...... "God", of the holy prophets, (meaning the OT and NT), meaning the ALMIGHTY, and it's ONLY ONE, "Almighty". so let's see who this Almighty that sent his angel to John... the same chapter 22, listen,
    Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

    well, well, well, it is the Lord Jesus who is God of the OT as well as the NT, the only TRUE and LIVING GOD, who sent HIS angel to John. now lets prove this out futher, the First and the Last is Jesus the Lord. Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:"
    Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." one more, Revelation 2:8 "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;"

    this is JESUS no doubt, now this,

    Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea." IS THIS NOT JESUS? YES. NOW LISTEN CLOSE, Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." where have you seen this "which is, and which was, and which is to come?" answer, Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;". HOLD IT, the "which is, and which was, and which is to come"... this is JESUS also, as well as the 7 Spirit? yes, for the one who address the 7 churches is the Spirit, listen how all the letters end. "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches".

    now lets recap, Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;"
    Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"


    see cataway, the book is from one person who is the, "which is, and which was, and which is to come", GOD, THE FATHER, and the "seven Spirits which are before his throne", GOD, the HOLY SPIRIT, and from, "Jesus Christ", GOD THE SON.
    THERE YOU HAVE IT, FROM THE BIBLE, JESUS IS A. "FATHER", B. "SON", AND C. "HOLY SPIRIT". ONE PERSON, THREE TITLES.

    see cataway, it's only ONE PERSON in the book of Revelation who is GOD, the, "ALMIGHTY", and ONE GOD ONLY, who is the Lord JESUS.

    so your assessment of God in verse 1 is incorrect, it's only JESUS there.

    PICJAG,
    101G.
     
  2. 101G

    101G Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    296
    Ratings:
    +21
    Religion:
    Holy
    we suggest you read Post #281 above.

    PICJAG,
    101G.
     
  3. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,865
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    jw עדי יהווה
    luke 7
    28 I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of God is greater than he is.”
    so much for your gods being equals
     
  4. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,865
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    jw עדי יהווה
    john 14:28 You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am.
     
  5. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,865
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    jw עדי יהווה
    john 5:36 But I have the witness greater than that of John, for the very works that my Father assigned me to accomplish, these works that I am doing, bear witness that the Father sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. You have neither heard his voice at any time nor seen his form, 38 and you do not have his word residing in you, because you do not believe the very one whom he sent.
     
  6. 101G

    101G Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    296
    Ratings:
    +21
    Religion:
    Holy
    my gods? I have only ONE, who is ONE person. you must have me mixed up with someone else.

    PICJAG,
    101G.
     
  7. Soapy

    Soapy Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Messages:
    653
    Ratings:
    +55
    Religion:
    Christian
    Who do you say the Father is?

    Is he Almighty God: Yahweh?

    Is Jesus Yahweh?

    So, answering for you, Jesus is Yahweh, the Father! Yes?
     
  8. 101G

    101G Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    296
    Ratings:
    +21
    Religion:
    Holy
    GINOLJC, to all.
    first thanks for the reply, second,

    A. "Who do you say the Father is?". NOT I , BUT THE BILE, "JESUS", the Ordinal "FIRST", do you understand that?

    B. "Is he Almighty God: Yahweh?". JESUS is God ALMIGHTY, and there is no such person as... Yahweh, do you understand that?

    B. "Is Jesus Yahweh?". NO, and I say again, NO. Jesus is JESUS, the Almighty God, whom you know as "YHWH". understand this, "YHWH" is "WHAT" JESUS is, and the PERSONAL NAME of "YHWH", is "J E S U S". or Hebrew "YESHUA".

    C. "So, answering for you, Jesus is Yahweh, the Father! Yes?" NO need to answer for me, just answer to what the bible, (God's Holy Word), has been answering from the beginning. God is the ECHAD, or the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') of himself in flesh, as Father and Son.

    let us make it very clear.

    Jesus is the ONLY God, H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), who is the "ECHAD" of himself in Flesh....... did you understand that? if not, listen,


    H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) is "WHAT" God is in Nature, and H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is "WHO" God is in ordinal numbers as the ECHAD in NATURE. do you understand that.

    see, when Moses asked God name, Moses asked "WHAT" is your name, not "WHO" are you in Name..... big difference, and this is what scholars had done in INCORRECT TEACHING.

    this is the misunderstanding of, "WHAT" GOD is ..... the ECHAD of his own-self in flesh. that's why God said "I AM THAT I AM, and NOT .... I AM WHO I AM..... see the difference?

    God, JESUS, the H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) "ONE" PERSON, "ONE" SPIRIT, is "WHAT" he is as the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') in Ordinal designation IN THE ECHAD of himself, in TIME, PLACE, RANK, and ORDER....... listen carefully,

    The Ordinal FIRST. CREATOR, and MAKER of all things, (Genesis 1:1), this is JESUS, his titles, Father, "LORD", beginning, alpha, root.

    The Ordinal LAST. REDEEMER, and SAVIOUR of all things, (John 1:1), this is Jesus, his titles, Son, "Lord" , end, omega, offspring.

    NOW HEAR ME GOOD, as the "ECHAD" of himself, this is why I said, the the Son of God, (the Ordinal, Last), was not at Genesis 1:1, not the flesh bone and blood, but JESUS the Spirit, (the ordinal First was).

    and here the reason why, . 1 Peter 1:20 "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you," BINGO, LAST time. he was to come in the fullness of TIME, "the LAST" days, supportive scripture, Hebrews 1:1 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets," Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"

    understand, John 1:1 was the LAST ... Adam, the END of all fleshly man. this is why he, JESUS, is called the beginning, and the end. now to finish up,

    The Amalgamation of the Ordinal First and the Ordinal Last, (Spirit in Glorified Flesh, the NEW MAN). COMFORTOR, and MEDIATOR of all things. (Revelation 1:1), this is JESUS, his titles HOLY SPIRIT, LORD and Lord, First and Last, beginning and end, alpha and omega, the root and the offspring, see how all the title are combine now... :eek:.

    so we have JESUS, the ordinal First "Father", LORD, all cap. JESUS, the ordinal Last, "Son", Lord........ se the difference now? and in his Amalgamation of his ECHAD, "The Holy Spirit".


    there you have it JESUS is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

    we suggest you copy this and re-read it. if you have have any questions, just ask.

    PICJAG,
    101G.
     
  9. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,865
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    jw עדי יהווה
    LOL i know a seven year old kid that has greater understanding of scripture
     
  10. 101G

    101G Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    296
    Ratings:
    +21
    Religion:
    Holy
    well then ask the seven year old who sits on the throne in Revelation chapter 5, and who is standing before the throne....

    PICJAG,
    101G.
     
  11. Soapy

    Soapy Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Messages:
    653
    Ratings:
    +55
    Religion:
    Christian
    The one seated on the throne is YHWH (The almighty God)

    The one standing before the throne is Jesus (The Lamb of God).

    God holds the scroll (Rev 5) and:
    • “(7) He (the lamb) went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.”
    Who took the scroll from God?

    Is Jesus the Lamb?

    If Jesus is the lamb and is also God then how is he taking the scroll from himself...?

    How is Jesus both standing in front of the throne encircled by the elders - and - seated on the throne at the same time?
     
  12. 101G

    101G Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    296
    Ratings:
    +21
    Religion:
    Holy
    thanks for the reply,
    Have you not been reading what I posted? guess not... Oh well, lets take your post one step at a time and show you the LIGHT.

    #1. your first Question, "The one seated on the throne is YHWH (The almighty God)", Oh yes, which is the Lord Jesus, "THE ORDINAL LAST, better known as the Son.
    now if you disagree, just tell us who GAVE the Father "POWER?", for there is ONLY ONE sitting on the throne, LISTEN, Revelation 4:10 "The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying," Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

    now, if the ONE sitting on the throne is the Father, well please tell us who have more power than the Father to give POWER unto the Father? ..... well. Name, book, chapter, and verse.

    #2. your second Question. "The one standing before the throne is Jesus (The Lamb of God)". ERROR on your part, there is no Lamb of God in Heaven, but there is a "Lamb" in heaven..... understand, the Lamb of, of, of God have BLOOD, listen, John 1:29 "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." see, the Lamb of God have blood to take away the sin of the world. when risen, he had no BLOOD, for flesh and blood cannot enter into the Kingdom, neither heaven, 1 Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

    your assessment is incorrect, yes that's JESUS standing before the throne, but not the "Son", and here's why, listen, Revelation 5:5 "And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof." Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."

    did you see it? if not the verse 5 said the "Root" of David, not the "Offspring", of David... BINGO. he who is standing before the throne is the Father, the Spirit, the Holy Spirit... the LORD said unto my "Lord" ... "SIT" ... yes now you got it, (smile), the ROOT is before David, Spirit, the Ordinal First, (Father). this is why you don't KNOW or UNDERSTAND Revelation, because you have no clue of God's ECHAD in the state of Ordinal First and Ordinal Last.

    so it is the Spirit, the same Spirit whom you call the Holy Spirit, yes, that JESUS, and it's the same Spirit that ADDRESSED the Seven churches. did you see how each letter ends to each church? listen and go and see for yourself... "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches". but wait, was it NOT the Lord Jesus who was speaking to the seven churches? YES.... (smile), :eek: YIKES.

    #3. your third Question "If Jesus is the lamb and is also God then how is he taking the scroll from himself...?" you have not been listening, well listen up, once again the ORDINAL "FIRST" is the ORDINAL "LAST", which is the "ECHAD" of God as the amalgamation of the Equal Share of himself in Flesh. listen, the "EQUAL SHARE" is the ECHAD express in, scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

    Form here is NATURE, and God is a Spirit. for it's the Greek word, G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
    1. form.
    2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
    [perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
    KJV: form
    Root(s): G3313

    now, since no one is EQUAL "TO" God, the verse is correct in SAYING, "EQUAL WITH", (just as in John 1:1 and Isaiah 48:12. meaning the same NATURE, the SAME one PERSON. but what kind of NATURE? the answer is in the root of G3444 μορφή morphe itself, G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n. 1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
    and another word for "portion" is SHARE. so the Lord Jesus NATURE in FLESH is the "EQUAL SHARE" of Spirit, IN NATURE, which describe the ECHAD CLEARLY, supportive scripture, Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

    see it NOW? Spirit of God, and Spirit of Christ. NOT two separate Spirit, NO, only ONE, EQUALLY SHARED. oh I wish I had the time and space to teach this.

    so as I said, he who sits, is he who stand.... Oh the beauty of the "ECHAD" of God.

    know the difference between the Lamb of God, and the Lamb. also know the difference between the ROOT of David, (Spirit/Father), and the OFFSPRING of David, (spirit/Son).

    PICJAG,
    101G.
     
  13. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,865
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    jw עדי יהווה
    go back to #276 a re-read is in order
     
  14. 101G

    101G Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    296
    Ratings:
    +21
    Religion:
    Holy
    nope, you go back to #278, that abswer #276.... (smile), :eek: YIKES!.

    PICJAG,
    101G.
     
  15. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,865
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    jw עדי יהווה
    nope #276 super seeds #278
     
  16. 101G

    101G Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    296
    Ratings:
    +21
    Religion:
    Holy
    don't be childish, did the 7 year old answer the Revelation question? ... guess not, haven't heard a reply.

    well that sum that up.

    PICJAG,
    101G.
     
  17. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,865
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    jw עדי יהווה
    are you saying you understand the book of Revelation ?
     
  18. Soapy

    Soapy Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Messages:
    653
    Ratings:
    +55
    Religion:
    Christian
    101G, please interpret Rev 1:1 for me... and only Rev 1:1:
    • “The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,”
    I see three persons mentioned (oooh ...a TRINITY!!!):
    • Jesus
    • God
    • John
    and an angelic Angel.

    What do you see?
     
  19. 101G

    101G Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    296
    Ratings:
    +21
    Religion:
    Holy
    GINOLJC, to all.
    First thank you for the reply, second, thanks for asking. and it's not what I see, but what God reveals in his Word.

    Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

    in your mind you're thinking or seeing two people standing next to each other, one is handing the other something... "the revelation". oh yes, that's in you head/mind. well get that out of your head. according to the trinity, you should see one body with two heads, for each person, (ONE NATURE ... THREE PERSONS?).... never mind.

    this is only one person in the scene here in verse #1, JESUS, how do we know this? Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;" Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"

    now knowing that, it eliminates anyone in verse #1 except the Lord Jesus, who is God, and Christ. for, "him which is, and which was, and which is to come", is JESUS, "the seven Spirits", is JESUS, and you know, "from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness", this is JESUS and only JESUS.

    Now STOP and THINK, Soapy, THINK, if this Revelation is FROM, (GOD, your PERSON #1), Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;"

    and he, (person #1), GAVE IT, (the Revelation), to his Son Jesus, (PERSON #2, here in this verse), Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"

    so do we have PERSON #1, him, "which is, and which was, and which is to come", and... and ... , the "the seven Spirits", which is his Spirit?, AND, AND, AND, AND, from Him Jesus the Christ the faithful witness, so is this one person, or two here?

    Now Soapy, is this one person, or three person, or TWO persons? lets look closely,

    A, him, "which is, and which was, and which is to come", the one whom you calls Father, ... God.

    B. "the seven Spirits". the Holy Spirit, or is this #A. Spirit? ... (one person total?).... God, (your Person #1), in verse #1 who Gave the Revelation to Jesus the Christ?

    C. him, "Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness".

    ok Soapy, this just told us who is in VERSE 1. is this one person, A,B, and C?, or is it three persons, A, (the Father), B (the Holy Spirit), C (Jesus the Son?), or is this just two Persons, God, (A, (Father), and his Spirit, B, (the ONE PERSON GOD), and Jesus Christ C. ...... your two persons in verse #1.

    well the ANSWER, is one person, A,B, and C. first, I'll let you search it out, and then I'll revealed it to you.

    the bible interpret itself, just go and find out who is the "which is, and which was, and which is to come", and find out who is the "seven Spirits", and you know who the Christ is.

    all of theses designation/titles are found right here in the bible book of Revelation. and when we, (you and I), find out who this is, it will put an end to who is in Verse #1. for good and forever. we will KNOW THE TRUTH.

    so I'll be looking for your reply....

    PICJAG,
    101G.

    PS. the reason why I'm sending you to find this, one will believe their ownself, for the TRUTH. as said, I will show by scripture the one in Verse 1, but I give you the opportunity to find out for yourself.
     
  20. Soapy

    Soapy Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Messages:
    653
    Ratings:
    +55
    Religion:
    Christian
    I won’t have been the first to say to you but what you wrote is of no positive sense.

    If God gave something to Jesus then the follow is obvious:
    1. Jesus cannot be God - the giver cannot be the receiver of that which the giver gives!
    2. God had something that Jesus did not have
    3. The dispatcher is giving a testament about the himself to the person who is the deliverer
    Jesus, during his lifetime prior to his anointment, had no power to do what the Father was to SEND HIM to do. He might have tried bug that would have been to do something he had big been equipped to do... and his mother, Mary, did try his patience in that regard till he even called her, ‘WOMAN...!’.

    What you said was convoluted and at times I think even you could see that what you were trying to say was pure hotchpotch. I don’t understand how you just didn’t remove it and try a different tack!

    • The Father gives to the Son...
    • The Son obeys the Father...
    • Because he is the righteous Son, he is GIFTED the power of the Father... to do mighty works ‘IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER’.
    • Mankind has lost its TRUE knowledge of the LORD (YHWH) GOD and Jesus is given the testament about the Father (God) to give to mankind. This is the first part of the mission that Jesus is given.
    • The book of Revelation teaches the testament concerning what is, and is about, to take place but is shrouded in mystery so it can only be interpreted at the appropriate future time and by appointed members (all other interpretations will miss the Mark!)
    • But nonetheless, the overall ‘shape’ of the mystery is plain to see. We need only remember, or take into account, that the mystery is SPIRITUAL and should refrain from attempts
     
Loading...