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Featured God the baby killer

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Spiderman, Sep 29, 2018.

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  1. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    Which is why Abraham et al never went to heaven (John 3:13) since they weren't born again (John 3:3) and didn't repent and didn't tithe to preacher men selling after death salvation with money back guarantees so that they can buy private jets and fancy ladies.
     
    #121 Mitty, May 19, 2020
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  2. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    No one was born-again prior to Pentecost. But before that they were still saved by faith. Just as Abraham was. As (Gen. 15:6) says.

    Again, (John 3:3) speaks to origin. The phrase born-again there speaks to being from above. If your origin is not right, from above, then you cannot 'see' the Kingdom. (John 3:5) speaks to the New birth. "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God."

    Every believer has their origin in Heaven. From above. This is why they believe. They are from there. This is why the non-believer does not believe. His origin is not from above. (John 8:47) "He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." (John 10:26) "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep" (John 8:23) "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

    So, the point is, the Old Testament saints were children of God. Saved by faith. This includes those before Israel, from Adam to Moses, and those who were later Israelites. Because all are saved by faith, they go to Heaven. The New Birth is a later condition given the believer in Christ. And will be experienced even later by a repentant Israel that turns back to God.

    You can keep repeating all you want that Abraham isn't in Heaven, but you just don't know what your saying.

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  3. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    That's just your personal opinion, and it's your choice if you don't believe what the bible actually says, which is that Abraham never went to heaven (John 3:13)? And given that Abraham et al never went to heaven (John 3:13), did they prefer to go to paradise and romp around in the lake of fire with 72 virgins instead? 72 Virgins - WikiIslam

    Or do you believe that the writers of John 3:13 were liars and were tossed into the lake of fire with all the other liars and abominable whoremongers and remarried divorcees such as Trump (Rev 21:8)?

    Or are those stories just imaginative fantasies?
     
    #123 Mitty, May 19, 2020
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  4. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    So why did Abraham need to have faith anyway, given that he had regular face to face conversations with a god and even shared a non-kosher meal with a god when they discussed the number of righteous children in Gomorrah before the god walked down to count them (Gen 18)? Do you know anyone who has also had a face to face conversation with a god and/or shared a beer or a meal with one?
    Or are those stories just imaginative fantasies?
     
  5. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    Go back and read post (122). I explained.

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  6. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    And did you come down from heaven too, given that John 3:13 says that Abraham & Noah & Moses etc never went to heaven and didn't come down from heaven?
     
  7. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    (Gen. 18) is 'after' (Gen. 15). Big news.

    Abraham needed to have faith, because it is God that set faith as the key to salvation.

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  8. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    None of that explains why Abraham et al never went to heaven (John 3:13).
     
  9. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    So what did Abraham have faith in if he had regular face to face conversations with one of the gods which held a meeting about creating a male person in the image and likeness of the male creator god and creating a female person in the image and likeness of a goddess (Gen 1:25-26)?
    Or are those stories just imaginative fantasies?
     
    #129 Mitty, May 19, 2020
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  10. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    I already told you. Go back and read post (122). Pay attention this time.

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  11. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    For even his brothers didn't believe in him.
    John 7:5

    Before that they said:

    ...If you do these things, reveal yourself to the world."
    John 7:4

    So, they admitted Jesus had done impressive things, but still didn’t believe in him. I think it is interesting question why they didn’t believe. But, I don’t think Bible answers to that and I don’t think it would be good if I would make up some explanation that is not based to anything. But, the fact seems to be that many people reject Jesus, not all agree with him. I don’t think it means Jesus is not right. I think Jesus told the truth and truth just is not what many people like.

    … Where then did this man get all of these things?"…
    Matt 13:55-58

    I think that is excellent question, if Jesus was just brother of them, why was he so different that even those who didn’t follow him, thought he had something special? And why did they not believe, if they themselves saw what Jesus did and thought it was something special?

    It is also interesting why do you think his mother didn’t believe when those scriptures don’t say so?

    Newton got his knowledge by his eyes, by watching nature. Most of us can see the same things and he really has no knowledge that would be special. Same is basically with Einstein. Both of them stated basically the obvious. Many could have probably done the same long before them, but probably it was too obvious for them.

    What is more important seems to be a matter of opinion, but I think what Jesus said is far more important and useful.
     
  12. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    That's because Abraham did go to Heaven. Go back and reread. Take notes.

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  13. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    Here, let me take you by the hand. Go to (Gen. 15:6). What does it say? Let me read it to you. "And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness."

    Now, listen close. When it says 'he believed in the LORD'. You ask what did he believe? And that means...pay attention...you go to the preceding verse or verses. And what does it say? (Gen. 15:5) "...if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be."

    Abraham had faith in God's promise concerning the seed that should come. And that seed was Christ. (Gal. 3:16)

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  14. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    So why do the writers of John 3:13 say that Abraham & Moses & Noah & David etc never went to heaven, even though David was his god's begotten son. Or did David come down from heaven (John 3:13)?
     
  15. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    Where does the bible say that Abraham believed in Jesus, or did you just make that up? And if so, why didn't Abraham go to heaven (John 3:13)?
     
  16. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    I just showed you. Read again (122, 133).

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  17. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    I already explained. Go to post (122). Read and take notes.

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  18. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    So what impressive things did Jesus do apart from performing a conjuring trick with some previously hidden wine containers in order to irresponsibly make some already "well drunk" party goers even drunker (John 2:1-10)?
    And why didn't Jesus invent the steam engine or explain the theory of relativity?
    And where does the bible say that Jesus' mother believed that he was a prophet or the Jewish king?
     
    #138 Mitty, May 19, 2020
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  19. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    Alas nothing in that about why Abraham et al never went to heaven (John 3:13).
     
  20. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    Alas nothing in that to explain why Abraham & Moses & Noah & David never went to heaven (John 3:13) even though David was his god's begotten son (Psalm 2:7).
     
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