God or no God, heads or tails?

[marshjohn]

It is really a waste of time if it can have no outcome. Debating on god leads one to "Insanity".

 

[Revoltingest]

I believe God has makes the truth manifest to honest searchers, and hides it from those who are arrogant and highminded.

As I see it, honesty demands that one not seek at all, only observe & interpret what is.
To seek poses a danger....it leaves one vulnerable for mistaking comforting mirages as 'truth'.
We have evidence of this in the numerous mutually exclusive beliefs of many & varied religions.
So many claim to have "the truth", yet they cannot even agree among themselves, & will even
kill each other in the name of these arbitrary & ill founded truths.

 

[marshjohn]

The one who knows "TRUTH" shows little possession of it.

 

[crossfire]

That's why I always say, "The trick to being right all the time is knowing when to change your mind."

And you can quote me on that.:beach:

Alright, that deserves a frubal.

As for beieving in God or not--that's not really important. Now whether or not God believes in you,--well that's another matter altogether!

 

[Nooj]

As I see it, honesty demands that one not seek at all, only observe & interpret what is.
To seek poses a danger....it leaves one vulnerable for mistaking comforting mirages as 'truth'.
We have evidence of this in the numerous mutually exclusive beliefs of many & varied religions.
So many claim to have "the truth", yet they cannot even agree among themselves, & will even
kill each other in the name of these arbitrary & ill founded truths.

In its best forms, I see seeking as a passionate engagement with the world.

You say only observe and interpret what is, but I think observing and interpreting are activities that are also deeply involved with the observer and interpreter's desires and subjectivity.

 

[McBell]

I believe God has makes the truth manifest to honest searchers, and hides it from those who are arrogant and highminded. It was Jesus who said: "I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones, and have revealed them to babes. Yes, O Father, because to do thus came to be the way approved by you. All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and who the Son is no one knows but the Father; and who the Father is, no one knows but the Son, and he to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.” (Luke 10:21, 22)
Far from a waste of time, I believe to know God and his purposes gives us purpose, happiness, and an eternal future. (John 17:3)

Yes, your skills at ratification are without peer...

 

[rusra02]

Yes, your skills at ratification are without peer...

I don't understand what that means.

 

[LuisDantas]

The literal meaning is that no one knows how to verify that things believed to be true are indeed true quite as well as you do.

 

[rusra02]

As I see it, honesty demands that one not seek at all, only observe & interpret what is.
To seek poses a danger....it leaves one vulnerable for mistaking comforting mirages as 'truth'.
We have evidence of this in the numerous mutually exclusive beliefs of many & varied religions.
So many claim to have "the truth", yet they cannot even agree among themselves, & will even
kill each other in the name of these arbitrary & ill founded truths.

Yes, I agree there is some danger in searching for the truth, but also, I think, in not searching for it. One doesn't want to be gullible or believe simply because what is claimed appeals to us. But, one doesn't want to reject what the evidence proves, either. In his famous speech on Mars Hill, the apostle Paul masterfully argues this point: God "himself gives to all persons life and breath and all things. And he made out of one man every nation of men, to dwell upon the entire surface of the earth, and he decreed the appointed times and the set limits of the dwelling of men, for them to seek God, if they might grope for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us. For by him we have life and move and exist," (Acts 17:25-28)

 

[rusra02]

The literal meaning is that no one knows how to verify that things believed to be true are indeed true quite as well as you do.

And the intended meaning?

 

[Sir Doom]

Yes, I agree there is some danger in searching for the truth, but also, I think, in not searching for it. One doesn't want to be gullible or believe simply because what is claimed appeals to us. But, one doesn't want to reject what the evidence proves, either. In his famous speech on Mars Hill, the apostle Paul masterfully argues this point: God "himself gives to all persons life and breath and all things. And he made out of one man every nation of men, to dwell upon the entire surface of the earth, and he decreed the appointed times and the set limits of the dwelling of men, for them to seek God, if they might grope for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us. For by him we have life and move and exist," (Acts 17:25-28)

The bold part is exactly why I believe what I do. Can you explain why I shouldn't want to do it this way?

 

[outhouse]

Why. I thought it was your position that the Hebrews were never in Egypt.

they were not

that doesnt mean the two large previous civilizations in the levant didnt have influences that extended beyond their boundries

 

[LuisDantas]

And the intended meaning?

It is not my place to guess.

 

[Caladan]

I've come to realize that the debate really is a dead end. I mean, certain religions, God concepts, and practices seem obviously false or misunderstood, they can be explained away logically and scientifically. But in the end nobody truly knows that the truth is. To be honest, we have faith in a lot of things. We certainly have faith in reason, axioms that we cannot prove and accept as self evident. Faith that a billion experiments showing one thing will never fail. So, maybe absolute answers aren't important.

Maybe the debate of God (not including certain god concepts) is a waste of time?

I agree with you for the most part. The debate has exhausted itself in many ways.
Personally I do not hold beliefs in the supernatural, but I take freely from the religions of the world. While many of the religious narratives may not be factual, in many cases that is not even the point. The point is to foster an ideological perspective, a motivation, an intuitive world view.
Jews intuitively know that the story of the exodus symbolises stepping out of bondage and into freedom. Icelanders even today, still relate to the tale of Sigurd and have taken inspiration from the deeds of Thor even centuries after Christianization.
It's tiresome to read atheists waving off the 'superstitions' of religious literature, without ever really understanding what the literature means. No one really needs to believe in Asgard or Mount Olympus in order to appreciate the wisdom of the Havamal and the greatness that is the Odyssey.

 

[FREE-of-FAITH]

I don’t think the question should be god or no god, but rather the God that is portrayed though holy books, or a supreme power out there that nobody has any way of ever being in contact with.

From personal experience I can say that life without belief in the God as portrayed though Islam, Christianity and Judaism is much more peaceful. Why someone wants to live their life in pain of being afraid that they will be judged for every single action is beyond me. I grew up believing in that god.. a god that I had to be constantly afraid of. The freedom from faith, superstition, and unproven ideas is beautiful because it gives you the ability to gather all the information and evidence and live in peace as you search for the true answer, not the ideas put together as the ‘best possible answer’ many centuries ago!

 

[Falvlun]

I've come to realize that the debate really is a dead end. I mean, certain religions, God concepts, and practices seem obviously false or misunderstood, they can be explained away logically and scientifically. But in the end nobody truly knows that the truth is. To be honest, we have faith in a lot of things. We certainly have faith in reason, axioms that we cannot prove and accept as self evident. Faith that a billion experiments showing one thing will never fail. So, maybe absolute answers aren't important.

Maybe the debate of God (not including certain god concepts) is a waste of time?

While I don't think the great debate will ever be effectively settled by us yammering at each other, I don't think it is necessarily pointless either. Whatever it is you believe, you need to know why you believe it, what is convincing about it, and be able to support your belief with reasons and evidence that you, at least, find compelling. I'd respect the belief of a thoughtful theist over a clueless atheist any day, even though I happen to agree with the atheist. It's not so much the outcome of the debate that is important; it is the thought, research, and energy that goes into it.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

I believe God has makes the truth manifest to honest searchers, and hides it from those who are arrogant and highminded. It was Jesus who said: "I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones, and have revealed them to babes. Yes, O Father, because to do thus came to be the way approved by you. All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and who the Son is no one knows but the Father; and who the Father is, no one knows but the Son, and he to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.” (Luke 10:21, 22)
Far from a waste of time, I believe to know God and his purposes gives us purpose, happiness, and an eternal future. (John 17:3)

Wow, do you have any idea how arrogant and high-minded that sounds?

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

I've come to realize that the debate really is a dead end. I mean, certain religions, God concepts, and practices seem obviously false or misunderstood, they can be explained away logically and scientifically. But in the end nobody truly knows that the truth is. To be honest, we have faith in a lot of things. We certainly have faith in reason, axioms that we cannot prove and accept as self evident. Faith that a billion experiments showing one thing will never fail. So, maybe absolute answers aren't important.

Maybe the debate of God (not including certain god concepts) is a waste of time?

Instead of searching for the truth, search for the standard of truth. Otherwise how will you know it when you see it?

 

[rusra02]

The bold part is exactly why I believe what I do. Can you explain why I shouldn't want to do it this way?

No, I agree we should not be gullible about anything we're asked to believe, but carefully examine the evidence. I am convinced that most people blindly believe the theory of evolution simply because they are told that only foolish or ignorant people don't believe it. Likewise, if there is a true God who cares about us, there should be evidence for this. I think it takes an honest and humble person to seek to find the truth, more so to accept the truth and act on it once it is found.

 

[rusra02]

Wow, do you have any idea how arrogant and high-minded that sounds?

Why do you feel that way? Jesus Christ simply spoke the truth, and it would have been dishonest to do otherwise. I believe his life, miracles, death, and resurrection provide him the authority to make such statements. Christ's authority comes from God: "I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak. Also, I know that his commandment means everlasting life. Therefore the things I speak, just as the Father has told me them, so I speak them.” (John 12:49, 50)