• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

God of the Old Testament

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Growing up as a Baptist and spending 30 years in that religion/denomination, I did a lot of Bible study sessions, but it was not until I was in my 30s and I really started paying attention to what was actually written in the Bible, that I drifted away from my upbringing and eventually walking the path of the deist. These are some of the things that after reading them, I became further removed from my childhood religion:

Human sacrifice
Child sacrifice
Slavery
Murder
Rape

All of these things are found in the OT and they were all SUPPOSEDLY ordered by God. First born animals and children were to be sacrificed as a burnt offering. Slavery was encouraged and there were laws that governed its practice. When the Israelites conquered a city, they murdered every man, woman and child in it. Virgin girls were kidnapped, taken as wives and forcefully raped.

As an adult, when I actually understood what those things were and how heinous and immoral they were, to go back and re-read the Bible and see them throughout the OT, I could not help but drift away. Hell, I am a cop (CSI) and help send people to prison for doing those things.

It really gripes me to read about ancient priests and how they lived. "God" demands a 10% tribute (tithe), payable to the priesthood. There was to be a weekly feast prepared a certain way and with the best morsels, also given to the priesthood. The priests did not work in the fields or tend to the flocks...they sat around in their shaded tents and lived an easy, rich life. It was the biggest con game of its time...and proliferates to this very day.

I have always said that the god of the OT and the god of the NT seem to be two different individuals.

"Bow down before me! Tremble before me! Fear me! You will burn in hell!" That sounds more like the directives of a diabolical, self righteous dictator than it does a benevolent, loving deity.

That is one of the bigger reasons why I am a deist. Deism, as a theological concept, denies the drivel found in the OT as being divinely inspired. We can clearly see where it was a person, or group of people, that were using religion and the threat of divine wrath to live a fat, easy life. There was a reason only the priests could go inside the temple...they did not want their secret to get out!
 

Whiterain

Get me off of this planet
About the only thing I learned from contemporary religion is God's ruthless and it's a decent way to make money.

It's moving you didn't realize these things until you were in your 30's. I was an 8 year old in Sunday school 20 years ago thinking God was kind of a sicko.
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
That is the problem with so many that claim to be Christian or otherwise...they don't actually read what the Bible says. So many just repeat or believe what they heard along the way. Thus biblical vs traditional beliefs.
 

Whiterain

Get me off of this planet
Hmph, semantics to me.

It's credible a person of your profession has maintained faith in the 'real life' line of work.

Dealing with death on a basis and all, it makes the usual people question everything, although your faith is strong.

Contemporary religion didn't do a good job with divine intervention and spirituality. Praying for an angel to help you, In fact it has the sorriest teachings on spirituality.

Many others teach independence from divine intervention.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I have always said that the god of the OT and the god of the NT seem to be two different individuals.

I found in reading the Christian Bible God slowly morphs from the God of Genesis to a completely different character in the NT.
Genesis God is a desert king with superpowers. He is not anything like the omnimax benevolent dictator in the NT. As humans develop more sophisticated morals, culture, etc., they redesign God in their own image. People keep imagining God is the way that God would be if they were God.

To me, this is solid evidence that religion is fiction.
Tom
 

Whiterain

Get me off of this planet
I found in reading the Christian Bible God slowly morphs from the God of Genesis to a completely different character in the NT.
Genesis God is a desert king with superpowers. He is not anything like the omnimax benevolent dictator in the NT. As humans develop more sophisticated morals, culture, etc., they redesign God in their own image. People keep imagining God is the way that God would be if they were God.

To me, this is solid evidence that religion is fiction.
Tom

It's pretty sick... There are people that have the right to change dogma like the Pope, for instance. But then there are denominations of Christianity that will remain with the old dogma or just do what the want and create their own dogma.

They either reform to changing societies or don't or make an inquisition regime.

I don't know how they kept the religion established over the centuries without heinously enforcing it.

Inquisition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's a bane on Mankind and Earth it is. Anytime I try and look into Catholicism, Judaism or Islam I just want to kill myself a little because it exists, as like a punishment on Man.

Some people find the joy and fairies in Religion, I do not anymore.

I don't think there is anything to worry about in the 1st world anymore though. If there would be an attempt at inquisition it would hopefully be a good laugh riot, particularly in the US where religion is steadily becoming a joke.


I live in the South to, Georgia, they keep'em good and brainwashed down hya. Coming out of those little wood churches ready for Jesus.


I'm impressed with OP though, somebody in that line of work. I assumed they were majorly skeptics at best having to deal with sicko's and death regularly. They teach all that divine intervention business in church and all.
 

Misunderstood

Active Member
Hello,

I had signed up to reply to this message, but after signing up and reading the rules it seems I may not be able to comment on this thread. The rules seem extensive and I am not sure I understand completely what they all mean. Anyway I am not a deist and it mentions that certain forums are reserved for certain groups. If that is ok I would like to comment, however if it is not allowed I will move on.

Thank you.
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Please post the verses you have in mind.

Kidnapping was punishable by death - and Israel was Not part of the slave-trade business -
Exodus 21:2,12,16,26,27; Lev. 22 vs 10,11; Lev. 19 vs 10 -36; Lev 25:10,40,41; Deut. 15:12- 14; Deut. 21 vs 10-14

Child sacrifice was condemned - Jeremiah 32:35

There is a difference between murder and an execution for the sake of justice.

Jesus self-sacrificed his life for us because we can Not resurrect oneself or another.
Jesus' self-sacrificing love as mentioned by Jesus at John 13 vs 34,35

Rape was punishable by death - Deut. 22 vs 23-30

When Jesus died, didn't righteous Jesus go to biblical hell ?________- Acts 2:27
Since Jesus taught only sleep ( Not pain ) in death - John 11 vs 11-14 - then biblical hell is just the grave for the sleeping dead.
Jesus would have learned that sleeping state for the dead from the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach sleep in death.
The dead know nothing -> Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4 ; Daniel 12 vs 2,13
Biblical hell comes to a final end according to Revelation 20 vs 13,14. After everyone in biblical hell ( Bible's temporary grave ) is ' delivered up ' out of hell, then emptied-out biblical hell is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell.

False biblical teachings taught as Scripture does Not make such religious-myth teachings as Scripture, but makes those false teachers as wrong.

I was going to reply, but then remembered that this section is Theological Concepts: Deism. We can discuss your points in another thread, if you like. My OP was showing part of the reason I transitioned to deism.
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Hello,

I had signed up to reply to this message, but after signing up and reading the rules it seems I may not be able to comment on this thread. The rules seem extensive and I am not sure I understand completely what they all mean. Anyway I am not a deist and it mentions that certain forums are reserved for certain groups. If that is ok I would like to comment, however if it is not allowed I will move on.

Thank you.

Feel free to IM me or post in an appropriate forum. You are right that this one is reserved for TC-Deism.
 

Misunderstood

Active Member
That would be ok, could you move it or repost it up one level, out of deism and into theological concepts. I am not sure how to navigate here real well as I just started yesterday. Let me know where you move it to. Thanks.
 

Whiterain

Get me off of this planet
Divine Intervention just ticks me off. How dare they make people think such a thing is possible.

No sympathy for fools but it's sick and sad that some many rely on it in their darkest hour.

That's why Norse Paganism is so great, the ideology, anyway, it's all about independence and self reliance when the chips are down.

Shinto is good to from what vague memories I have of it. It's just the teachings in Judeo verse aren't for me.

I won't go on some rant about what's wrong.
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
Growing up as a Baptist and spending 30 years in that religion/denomination, I did a lot of Bible study sessions, but it was not until I was in my 30s and I really started paying attention to what was actually written in the Bible, that I drifted away from my upbringing and eventually walking the path of the deist. These are some of the things that after reading them, I became further removed from my childhood religion:

Human sacrifice
Child sacrifice
Slavery
Murder
Rape

All of these things are found in the OT and they were all SUPPOSEDLY ordered by God. First born animals and children were to be sacrificed as a burnt offering. Slavery was encouraged and there were laws that governed its practice. When the Israelites conquered a city, they murdered every man, woman and child in it. Virgin girls were kidnapped, taken as wives and forcefully raped.

As an adult, when I actually understood what those things were and how heinous and immoral they were, to go back and re-read the Bible and see them throughout the OT, I could not help but drift away. Hell, I am a cop (CSI) and help send people to prison for doing those things.

It really gripes me to read about ancient priests and how they lived. "God" demands a 10% tribute (tithe), payable to the priesthood. There was to be a weekly feast prepared a certain way and with the best morsels, also given to the priesthood. The priests did not work in the fields or tend to the flocks...they sat around in their shaded tents and lived an easy, rich life. It was the biggest con game of its time...and proliferates to this very day.

I have always said that the god of the OT and the god of the NT seem to be two different individuals.

"Bow down before me! Tremble before me! Fear me! You will burn in hell!" That sounds more like the directives of a diabolical, self righteous dictator than it does a benevolent, loving deity.

That is one of the bigger reasons why I am a deist. Deism, as a theological concept, denies the drivel found in the OT as being divinely inspired. We can clearly see where it was a person, or group of people, that were using religion and the threat of divine wrath to live a fat, easy life. There was a reason only the priests could go inside the temple...they did not want their secret to get out!

In some ways the NT is just as bad. You have human sacrifice (Jesus), pagan symbolic cannibalism (Eucharist/Communion), someone's salvific death can correct your heart, and that you don't even have to try to be moral, all you have to do is you believe. All this and more from Paul who was almost certainly Herodian, and therefore Jewish in name only. Deism is the only theism that demands reason above all. Faith without reason is blind.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Your post does not belong on this thread as this is Theological Concepts - Deism.
I agree that Jay's post is inappropriate. If it got deleted I wouldn't care.

But I think your thread is a bit of an abuse of DIR. It is mostly Abrahamic bashing. I think it would be better to put such things in less restricted forums.
Personally I like the fact that we nontheists tend to be pretty easy going on this. We don't have beliefs that need protecting.
Tom
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
I agree that Jay's post is inappropriate. If it got deleted I wouldn't care.

But I think your thread is a bit of an abuse of DIR. It is mostly Abrahamic bashing. I think it would be better to put such things in less restricted forums.
Personally I like the fact that we nontheists tend to be pretty easy going on this. We don't have beliefs that need protecting.
Tom

While it may seem like "bashing" that was not the intent. Deism by its very nature rejects revealed religions, which the Abrahamics are. This thread was merely pointing out concepts from the OT that we do not accept, and was open for discussion from a deist POV. I don't go into the Judaism DIR and throw around insults, attacks or trash talk them. Heck I don't go there period, because I am not Jewish.
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
I read them because I find them interesting. But I rarely see them bashing other worldviews like you just did.
Tom

The person in question has a history of trash talking and belittling others. In open discussion/debate forums, I could care less. But it does not belong here. My OP is nothing but deistic concepts, and thus posted here.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Your post does not belong on this thread as this is Theological Concepts - Deism. Your post has nothing to do with this thread or forum and is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to attack me. Remove it or I will have a Mod remove it for you.
You are absolutely correct. It was an oversight and I've deleted the post.
 
Top