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God of the Old Testament

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
That is where we disagree, as I am exactly what you say is impossible. I have clearly defined my reasons in other threads. But for those not wanting to dig through them...

Christian: a follower of the teachings of Jesus
Deist: the belief in God based on reason and natural observation

Your description of Christianity complete with miracles, divine inspiration, etc. mostly comes from non-biblical sources such as tradition, which I do not ascribe to. One must separate what the Bible actually says vs. what clergymen teach from years of ignorant repetition.

Yes the Bible talks about the resurrection, but the oldest of the Gospels does not really say much about it. It appears the story was expanded at a later date. That and the Gospels are all hearsay, which I do not lend much value to.

Jesus' salvific death is the core tenet of Christianity. Yes, his followers probably didn't believe in his human sacrifice (though they believed that animal sacrifices did, and Jesus became the lamb to some of them), but it's what Christianity has become virtually universally, at least to the point that using the name requires immediate, extensive qualification when hyphenated with deism. And Jesus, like all Jews, was an O/T theist. I think whatever you're trying to accomplish with the term only causes confusion, greater disillusionment and eventual abandonment by most of those you're trying to help; sending them off into the ranks of the atheists and nihilists.
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Jesus' salvific death is the core tenet of Christianity.

According to whom...

I spent 30 years as a Southern Baptist so I am well aware of the tenets. That does not change the fact that the anonymous Gospel authors were obviously trying to keep the party going, so to speak. They were in the middle of a revolution.
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
According to whom...

Do you know a Christian denomination for which it isn't?

I spent 30 years as a Southern Baptist so I am well aware of the tenets. That does not change the fact that the anonymous Gospel authors were obviously trying to keep the party going, so to speak. They were in the middle of a revolution.

A revolution that goes back 2000 years to Paul, only "believers" now don't know any of that, for reasons that you've pointed out. It should have been renamed Paulism, but it wasn't. And what of that which can actually be attributed to Jesus is all that positive in the first place? Advocating for salvation through repentance, not animal/human sacrifice, is all I can think of.

How is deism's reasoned laissez faire God furthered by Christianity...from any era?
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Do you know a Christian denomination for which it isn't?



A revolution that goes back 2000 years to Paul, only "believers" now don't know any of that, for reasons that you've pointed out. It should have been renamed Paulism, but it wasn't. And what of that which can actually be attributed to Jesus is all that positive in the first place? Advocating for salvation through repentance, not animal/human sacrifice, is all I can think of.

How is deism's reasoned laissez faire God furthered by Christianity...from any era?

Well Jesus did say (or rather, the 3rd party hearsay authors said that he said) love God, love people. That's a start!

Christianity doesn't affect deism's position on God. But Christianity, through the moral teachings of Jesus, can serve as a guide to leading a good life on the basis of love God, love people. Granted other religions/philosophies have said the same thing, so just pick one and go with it. Whether someone wants to say they are a Christian Deist or a Buddhist Deist, don't let it bother you. That is their choice, based on how they define their personal beliefs.
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
Well Jesus did say (or rather, the 3rd party hearsay authors said that he said) love God, love people. That's a start!

But he also said, "I come not to bring peace, but a sword." He's quoted as saying a lot of contradictory, illogical, and un-reasoned things. Then Paul came along and said to forget all that, put your blind faith in God's salvific human sacrifice of his son--which became the core tenet of "Christianity (read Paulism) as soon as the opposition was crushed. None of that denigration of reason is deistic, even for "deists" who don't believe in a hands off God.

Christianity doesn't affect deism's position on God.

If it were nothing but a restatement of the Golden Rule, yeah. I believe in that myself.
“If any man come to Me and hate not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple." That's Jesus, the Christ, the first Christian, teaching hate, even unto self-hatred. How is that a message of love?
 

Repox

Truth Seeker
But he also said, "I come not to bring peace, but a sword." He's quoted as saying a lot of contradictory, illogical, and un-reasoned things. Then Paul came along and said to forget all that, put your blind faith in God's salvific human sacrifice of his son--which became the core tenet of "Christianity (read Paulism) as soon as the opposition was crushed. None of that denigration of reason is deistic, even for "deists" who don't believe in a hands off God.



If it were nothing but a restatement of the Golden Rule, yeah. I believe in that myself.
“If any man come to Me and hate not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple." That's Jesus, the Christ, the first Christian, teaching hate, even unto self-hatred. How is that a message of love?
I have changed my perspective on the Bible after I had some revelations. In a dream, a voice said about OT times, "It happened, but not that way." The problem is I don't know the right interpretations, so I give it a lot of thought. It could be those harsh rules and admonitions in OT times partly derived from cultural influences, and they covered up what may have really happened. As for the NT, I am certain Jesus was God, so I dismiss much of Paul and the NT gospels. Knowing Jesus was God certainly discolors the Bible. For me deism is a good fit. I believe God departed earth after men rejected Jesus. During OT times, and while in the world as Jesus, God intervened in human affairs. Now, we are basically on our own.
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
I have changed my perspective on the Bible after I had some revelations. In a dream, a voice said about OT times, "It happened, but not that way." The problem is I don't know the right interpretations, so I give it a lot of thought. It could be those harsh rules and admonitions in OT times partly derived from cultural influences, and they covered up what may have really happened. As for the NT, I am certain Jesus was God, so I dismiss much of Paul and the NT gospels. Knowing Jesus was God certainly discolors the Bible. For me deism is a good fit. I believe God departed earth after men rejected Jesus. During OT times, and while in the world as Jesus, God intervened in human affairs. Now, we are basically on our own.


You're twisting your soul into knots trying to hold on.
 

Repox

Truth Seeker
You're twisting your soul into knots trying to hold on.
That is an absurd comment. How do you even know humans have souls. Just because clerics tell us we have souls doesn't mean it is true. Except for symbolic communication abilities, humans are not much different than other species. They live, die, and turn to dust. What I am trying to hold onto?
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
That is an absurd comment. How do you even know humans have souls.

Fully self-aware consciousness, same thing. The only question is does it survive the death of the body.

Just because clerics tell us we have souls doesn't mean it is true.

That's not the first time you've implied my thoughts are attributable to religion or its trappings. I suffered the self-imposed trauma of dumping all revealed religions and other like hearsay, and started from scratch.

Except for symbolic communication abilities, humans are not much different than other species. They live, die, and turn to dust.

A few animals have a primitive self-awareness, but not a full self-awareness (including our inevitable mortality) which imparts an innate moral free will. All animals (and very young children), are innocent.

What I am trying to hold onto?

Good question. You tell me. It looks like some unspecified, supernatural, emotional, non-reasoned based ideal.
 

Repox

Truth Seeker
Fully self-aware consciousness, same thing. The only question is does it survive the death of the body.



That's not the first time you've implied my thoughts are attributable to religion or its trappings. I suffered the self-imposed trauma of dumping all revealed religions and other like hearsay, and started from scratch.



A few animals have a primitive self-awareness, but not a full self-awareness (including our inevitable mortality) which imparts an innate moral free will. All animals (and very young children), are innocent.



Good question. You tell me. It looks like some unspecified, supernatural, emotional, non-reasoned based ideal.
We have no evidence it survives, just fanciful stories. Just like other species, we live and die. It is religious beliefs that makes us think so.

I regard humans as sophisticated animals. We only have the Bible to contemplate the possibility. I believe it is possible, but not likely. Human actions rule against human holiness.

I had a dream about angels telling God about a new species dominating earth. God was not pleased. Evidently, angels patrol earth and report to God.

I believe there is the supernatural. In the past few years, I have had supernatural dreams and visions. I know there are supernatural because of their intensity and vividness. The problem is what I have learned is not positive for humans. I know for certain the supernatural is not material or in any way related to the universe or our world.
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
We have no evidence it survives, just fanciful stories. Just like other species, we live and die. It is religious beliefs that makes us think so.

I regard humans as sophisticated animals. We only have the Bible to contemplate the possibility. I believe it is possible, but not likely. Human actions rule against human holiness.

I had a dream about angels telling God about a new species dominating earth. God was not pleased. Evidently, angels patrol earth and report to God.

I believe there is the supernatural. In the past few years, I have had supernatural dreams and visions. I know there are supernatural because of their intensity and vividness. The problem is what I have learned is not positive for humans. I know for certain the supernatural is not material or in any way related to the universe or our world.

"We only have the Bible"? What about science, or at the other end of the spectrum, your dreams.
 

Repox

Truth Seeker
"We only have the Bible"? What about science, or at the other end of the spectrum, your dreams.
I shouldn't bring up my dreams, they only reference is myself. In other words, my dreams have no authority. I do it when a related topic comes up. I have a different insight which sometimes becomes controversial. In a lot of ways, my dreams have confirmed the Bible. Things really went crazy, however, when I had a vision about the duality of God. There is not much Bible evidence for God's duality.
 
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