God. Naturally Occurring?

[LuisDantas]

How come ignosticism is so darned rare?

Do you just assume that you somehow use somewhat comparable conceptions of what a deity would be?

 

[jonathan180iq]

Is this to say God is an artifact of our neurophysiology?

Yes it is.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Reality, perception of reality, happiness, etc., are dependent on interaction.
It is beneficial for a mind to have an accurate understanding of the workings of reality and its basic truth. Due to complexity and a present lack of "perfection" (happiness-causing situation among inexperienced beings, etc.), a false reality which brings more happiness than imperfect reality is often preferred. Presently, as the bible puts it... "With increased knowledge is increased pain".
That is not to say God is false and will not bring about perfection and teach us perfection, but many false gods have offered temporary (though misleading) relief -even a "high" -of some sort.

If God were not real, the idea of God would still be a temporary relief until man became God-like enough to master reality and peace -if that were at all possible. We can think on an increasingly God-like scale -but we still lack self-control, wisdom, knowledge, power over reality, etc. We also lack permanence/immortality which would allow for certain changes to be permanent -and each generation must learn the same basic lessons.
People are rejecting the idea of God for -whether they realize it or not - becoming God-like, but we struggle to master one planet.

That sure is a whole lot of castle building...

Is it safe to say that you don't actually know?

 

[Etritonakin]

That sure is a whole lot of castle building...

Is it safe to say that you don't actually know?

Please note last edit of my last post.

No.

It is safe to say that I do not know everything.
It is safe to say that I know God exists, but do not know all of the details.
It is safe to say (and the most reasonable explanation I have heard thus far) that -from what I do know -it is not logical that the present state of things could exist without a pre-existing creative intelligence -but there must be a reasonable explanation for the existence of that creative intelligence.

 

[ckay61]

That which has always existed, and from which all things are made, is permanent -as it is logical that something cannot come from absolute nothing.

Our present form and system is temporary. There is no reason a form and system could not be made permanent -though it is presently beyond our own power and level of knowledge. An original, all-inclusive intelligent creator could determine what was permanent and what would change -at least after developing to that point, if that is what happened.

It is logical to me that the universe specifically required forethought by a creative intelligence, but that still leaves the question of the basic nature of the creator.

Some believe a creator was not necessary to cause that which presently exists, but they are not certain what was necessary -and usually are not considering what caused "the singularity" to exist in the first place.

As the Big Bang produced the building blocks of physical life forms on earth, they then needed to become ordered to produce life. It is reasonable that the nature of the Big Bang could cause things to happen in the necessary order, but our own example shows that creative influence also exists -and we cannot say it did not exist prior to life on earth. We also cannot say it did not exist prior to the singularity and Big Bang.

It can be said, however, that it is "natural" for "nature" to produce self-aware, intelligent, creative life.

It is logical to me that a self-aware, intelligent, creative life form must have existed before our universe -due to its nature -could have been produced, but that leaves the question of the nature of the creator.

Though many religious people might consider the very idea blasphemous, it is not -as far as I know -specifically indicated in any scripture whether or not God developed from the most simple state possible, or always existed as a complex, self-aware, intelligent creator.

Similar to the thought that all which exists simply exists "eternally", and changes in form -but that "time" began with the expansion of the Big Bang, God could still be considered eternal if God developed and is essentially all that exists.

Nature is often personified as "Mother", but it is possible that the "Father" is literally the person which is "nature" -and that he necessarily preceded that which required self-awareness, intelligence, creativity, etc.

This might seem to mean that there was once a state in which God was not self-aware, but complex awareness is based on simple awareness and interaction. So, perhaps God became increasingly aware and self-aware as he became more of which to be aware and self-aware.

I am not claiming that any of this is true, but it does essentially answer every question of the origin and present state of things adequately.

Thoughts?

I'm new here, but I think this thread is where I belong. Do they have a lable for people like us? Anyway, I began asking these questions when I read Romans 1:20. It says we can know about "out there" by learning what is here. The chicken and egg question to me means Mother Nature (the hen) formed both the seed of I plus the egg for it to grow and be fed, Planet Earth is a giant egg and we plant flower seeds, vegetable seeds, etc.

If immortal health has ever been achieved, then The Oldest Living Minds did not invent the "laws" of chemistry, math and health, they had to learn them.

People here spend their lives studying chemiistry, math, biology to name a few. We know you cannot transfer just any blood type or organ into the human body, Mother Nature will reject an unhealthy match.

If there were no constant foundations you would not be able to mass produce the loaves of bread sitting on the grocery store shelves. Grandmothers wouldn't be able to exchange recipes. They use a recipe for the drugs you take too. The math and ingredients may be different, but both food and medicine go into the body.

I don't believe it was ever about hocus-pocus, but about the health of the chemistry. Our minds are made of chemistry. The ingredients are what they are and can't change themselves. Mother Nature keeps what enables growth and expansion and disinfects that which hinders growth and expansion.

Is there a place here that we are supposed to write a belief statement? I am leaving a lot out so not to be too long, sorry.

 

[ckay61]

I'm new here, but I think this thread is where I belong. Do they have a lable for people like us? Anyway, I began asking these questions when I read Romans 1:20. It says we can know about "out there" by learning what is here. The chicken and egg question to me means Mother Nature (the hen) formed both the seed of I plus the egg for it to grow and be fed, Planet Earth is a giant egg and we plant flower seeds, vegetable seeds, etc.

If immortal health has ever been achieved, then The Oldest Living Minds did not invent the "laws" of chemistry, math and health, they had to learn them.

People here spend their lives studying chemiistry, math, biology to name a few. We know you cannot transfer just any blood type or organ into the human body, Mother Nature will reject an unhealthy match.

If there were no constant foundations you would not be able to mass produce the loaves of bread sitting on the grocery store shelves. Grandmothers wouldn't be able to exchange recipes. They use a recipe for the drugs you take too. The math and ingredients may be different, but both food and medicine go into the body.

I don't believe it was ever about hocus-pocus, but about the health of the chemistry. Our minds are made of chemistry. The ingredients are what they are and can't change themselves. Mother Nature keeps what enables growth and expansion and disinfects that which hinders growth and expansion.

To me Eternity is older than Immortality. As long as Mother Nature can bring form any life, there is Eternal life. The question becomes has Immortal health been achieved. I think yes. If any of the old stories are true, then this flesh is like putting safety gates up at the bottom of the stairs. Earth is one giant classroom where you get live, visual aides of the good, the bad and the ugly.

Is there a place here that we are supposed to write a belief statement? I am leaving a lot out so not to be too long, sorry.

 

[Etritonakin]

I'm new here, but I think this thread is where I belong. Do they have a lable for people like us? Anyway, I began asking these questions when I read Romans 1:20. It says we can know about "out there" by learning what is here. The chicken and egg question to me means Mother Nature (the hen) formed both the seed of I plus the egg for it to grow and be fed, Planet Earth is a giant egg and we plant flower seeds, vegetable seeds, etc.

If immortal health has ever been achieved, then The Oldest Living Minds did not invent the "laws" of chemistry, math and health, they had to learn them.

People here spend their lives studying chemiistry, math, biology to name a few. We know you cannot transfer just any blood type or organ into the human body, Mother Nature will reject an unhealthy match.

If there were no constant foundations you would not be able to mass produce the loaves of bread sitting on the grocery store shelves. Grandmothers wouldn't be able to exchange recipes. They use a recipe for the drugs you take too. The math and ingredients may be different, but both food and medicine go into the body.

I don't believe it was ever about hocus-pocus, but about the health of the chemistry. Our minds are made of chemistry. The ingredients are what they are and can't change themselves. Mother Nature keeps what enables growth and expansion and disinfects that which hinders growth and expansion.

Is there a place here that we are supposed to write a belief statement? I am leaving a lot out so not to be too long, sorry.

I'd agree that math is something which is inherent -and that it essentially governs chemistry -and so health, but as a creative mind could precede the "physical" universe, chemistry as it involves the elements, etc., could have been designed and created by applying a deep understanding of math, logic, etc., to pre-universe "material" to create the elements in the first place -as it seems to me that the universe was created by complex rearrangement of more simple pre-existing material.

WE may not be able to break the laws of physics, but on some level or levels it may be possible to re-write or tweak them -as long as the most basic laws are not broken. If the present laws of physics are by arrangement of pre-existing material, they are not themselves the most basic laws.