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Featured God is the one who's creating all the things that you see all around you.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by chinu, Oct 20, 2021.

  1. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    Do you not understand what I said and was asking? Was I telling someone this is where you’re at and what someone experienced or was I asking a question and giving an opinion on what it sounded like to me?

    You say when you were in it, it seemed real, in what?
    Sounds like you never met Jesus Christ for yourself, can you even prove that statement? Sounds to me that you were caught up in some legalistic or cultish group who called themselves Christians and never actually met Jesus Christ for yourself. IMO
     
  2. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Lightly seared on the reality grill.

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    I know, and the problem is that experiences like yours are two a penny and lead to contradictory conclusions (different, contradictory faiths), as are opposite experiences where faith has had negative effects. This is way it's valueless as evidence.
    I can no more prove my experience than you can prove yours. I would have said, and believed, that I'd "met Jesus Christ for myself". And, as I predicted way back in #204, you've retreated into a no true Scotsman fallacy.
     
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  3. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Well-Known Member

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    I'm not using physics. I'm using logic.
     
  4. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    There are a lot of testimonies like mine and they all result in a person living a holy life, repenting of their sin with the fruit of the Spirit being evident in their lives. That’s how you can tell the true from the false.
    “I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.”
    ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-26‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
     
  5. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Lightly seared on the reality grill.

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    Just repeating yourself will not make my point go away. All sorts of people from all sorts of (contradictory) faiths lead good and fulfilled lives, as do many people with no faith at all. Phrases like a 'holy life' and 'fruit of the spirit' are meaningless out here in the real world. People of all faiths and none do good things and do bad things. 'Bible believing' or 'born again' Christians really aren't that different from the rest of us in that respect, so no, we can't tell that it's true from how people live.

    Cue repeat of no true Scotsman fallacy.
    Why do you think quoting your 'holy' book at people who don't accept its supposed authority or its accuracy, is going to do any good? It's totally pointless.
     
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  6. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    Where do you get this thinking? Accept it or don’t is up to you. But to say the Bible doesn’t have authority is false, when you break the laws of Scripture you suffer the consequences whether you believe it or not. For example you will reap what you sow whether or not you are a believer or not. This is whether we are talking natural or spiritual things.
     
  7. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    A triangle and a square.
     
  8. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    I don’t think your application is correct, seems you’re arguing with a strawman and not sure why you are replying to me at all.
     
  9. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Lightly seared on the reality grill.

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    If I tried to tell you that you were wrong and quoted Alice in Wonderland, or even the 'holy' book from another faith, would you be impressed? Would you take it seriously?
    Baseless assertion.
     
  10. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Lightly seared on the reality grill.

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    As soon as I told you that my experience was different to yours, you tried to claim that I was never a 'true' Christian in the sense you are. I also suspect that if I pointed out all the terrible things that people have done, despite or even because of their Christian faith, you'd be telling me the same thing about them.
     
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  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Nope. If you were using logic then you would be using physics. You are using personal prejudice and that is emotional, not logical.
     
  12. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    You haven’t said what your experience was yet, just you tried it and seemed real but wasn’t. Doesn’t sound like you were ever born again to me or ever met Jesus Christ for yourself, you haven’t shared any evidence to the contrary, this I said was my opinion about what you’ve said so far.
    The Bible describes a person who is a believer compared to a fake or pretender.

    “This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.”
    ‭‭I John‬ ‭1:5-7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
     
  13. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Lightly seared on the reality grill.

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    I'd have described it pretty much as what you're describing is your experience.
    Neither have you.
     
  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Being "born again" is a term abused by mostly a rather small group of American Christians. One does not have to be "born again" in the sense that you use that term to be a Christian. You are making the error of being overly literal again. IN other words you are claiming that Jesus is made of wood.
     
  15. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    You haven’t described anything close, you said you met Jesus Christ yet you say He is imaginary. Brother, if this is your view then you have never met Him.:)
     
  16. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    What sense is that?
     
  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Really? And how would you know that? You have told us countless times that all you have is mere belief and that you do not actually have a logical belie in God.

    But who knows. Perhaps you have learned since then. How would you properly test your beliefs? What reasonable test could possibly show them to be wrong? If you cannot answer this question you have admitted that your belief is not rational.
     
  18. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Lightly seared on the reality grill.

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    I said I believed that I'd met him (just like you do), then (later) realised it wasn't real. At the time, I'd have said to someone like me, just what you've posted here to me, and I'd have been sincere too. Classic no true Scotsman: because I came to realise it wasn't real means that I can't really have ever been where you are.
     
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  19. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    It is your faulty version. You tell us. I don't want to be accused of using a strawman, Where do you get your claim that someone must be "born again" from (I am very sure of the verse that you will abuse, but I will let you hang yourself)/
     
  20. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    You made this statement and now I’m asking you to explain what is the sense that I use that you’re referring to?
     
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