God is the one who's creating all the things that you see all around you.

[chinu]

Wow, you're easily convinced. Do you want to buy this bridge I have for sale.....?

Price ?

 

[ratiocinator]

Some hundreds of year back when there were NO scientists exist on this earth -- at that time people understood natural world more clearly because at that time both nature and people were much happier with each other as compare to today's world

Another baseless assertion.

 

[chinu]

No you're probably a product of aliens, unless you can prove otherwise - still waiting for an answer.

 

[ratiocinator]

Price ?

To you, I'll make a special offer of £10,000,000.

 

[chinu]

Yes, anything that doesn't actually exist is indeed formless. So glad we agree.

What's the shape of love ? or what's the shape of "agree"

 

[chinu]

It's kind of a fools errant to try and look for those things that are defined as being undetectable.

You are right. Its NOT so easy task

You want to find supreme and also afraid of people saying you fool errant. Don't worry, even if you will NOT do this job -- even then the people of this world will also try call you fool errant in your absence, the aren't going to give you any gold medal for not doing so. Interesting thing is that this happens with everyone

 

[chinu]

To you, I'll make a special offer of £10,000,000.

But I want to buy it for £10,000,000,000 ?

 

[ratiocinator]

But I want to buy it for £10,000,000,000 ?

Yeah, that figures. Done.

 

[chinu]

Yeah, that figures. Done.

Yeah, that figures. Done.

But, RF says contract is.. void-ab-initio

 

[ElishaElijah]

This seems to have little to do with what I said and you'll find stories like this where people found different (and contradictory) religions and gods, so, whereas I'm glad you got over your problems, it's not a reason to think that your god is actually real, that the bible is any less contradictory, or that you can justify it from itself.

My testimony is relevant because it’s consistent with what the Bible teaches on how a person enters a covenant relationship with God, how God is involved in our lives and personal. How He answers prayer and involved in our lives. How the Word of God is relevant, I’ve lived out the Word of God and the results are a fruitful, satisfying, abundant, life of peace and meaning.

 

[ratiocinator]

My testimony is relevant because it’s consistent with what the Bible teaches on how a person enters a covenant relationship with God, how God is involved in our lives and personal. How He answers prayer and involved in our lives. How the Word of God is relevant, I’ve lived out the Word of God and the results are a fruitful, satisfying, abundant, life of peace and meaning.

Once again you seem to have missed the point and can't see beyond your own subjective experience. Your story is no more useful than that of somebody who converted to (say) Islam and found fulfilment and freedom from previous problems, others who did so without any religion at all, or others who found faith and it causing them problems or even inspired obviously immoral acts.

We can't deduce the truth of the object of faith from the effect of having the faith, especially when accounts are so varied and contradictory. Nor can your experience magic away the contradictions and inconsistencies in the bible.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You are right. Its NOT so easy task

It's an impossible task. Undetectable things look very much like non-existent things.
By definition, you will not be finding undetectable things because... you know... like... you can't detect them.

You want to find supreme and also afraid of people saying you fool errant. Don't worry, even if you will NOT do this job -- even then the people of this world will also try call you fool errant in your absence, the aren't going to give you any gold medal for not doing so. Interesting thing is that this happens with everyone

I can't make heads or tails of this, tbh.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

What you see when you look around is an image created by your brain. There is no world. It is an illusion. I do not believe in existence of God/Gods/Goddesses. An illusion is neither good nor bad. It is just an illusion.

That is incorrect. You may not see the world exactly as it is, nor feel it as such, but the reality is there. You just happen to possess a very limited spectrum though which to view it. A very narrow band of the EM spectrum, hearing that ranges across a fairly narrow range of wavelengths. But you feel gravity, as it is. The sun warms your face, and the wind cools it. Yes, there's very much a world. And humans, using tools and techniques, are learning more and more about it all the time. You just need to look harder.

 

[blü 2]

That's quite wrong. And the reason is that you are assuming that superstition is all religious faith is about.

What remains if you take the supernatural content out of religion? Something like humanism, no? (I don't think of myself as a humanist, but I have a considerable moral overlap with them.)

What it's about is how it makes people feel about themselves in relation to their experience of existing.

You don't need supernatural elements to do that.

And that's as real as anything real you can name. Especially when you realize that "objectivity" in human terms, isn't objective.

If we want to know about reality, we can take conscious steps to maximize objectivity. It will never be entirely absent, or there'd never be a question put to which it was relevant; but it can be dealt with.

And as I said, there's no parallel in religion because the supernatural aspects of religion are not about reality.

You are raising a moderate level if insight into the physicality of existence way above it's actual importance. Because ultimately, what matters, is not our physical existence, or circumstances. It's our experience of it. Life for we humans is not primarily physical, it's experiential. Reasoned inquiry is a useful tool. But that's all it is. A useful tool.

I'm not sure we're very far apart here. Though we are apart.

You've done no such thing. There is no "objective reality" from the human perspective. It's an ideological fiction, like infinity, perfection, and justice.

Where do you get your air, water, food, shelter, company, parents, children from? The world external to you, reality. It's out there like it or not, and we can endeavor to understand it to the point where we can put rovers on Mars, whip up a Covid vaccine, and increase the useful part of cereal and vegetable crops, and so on.

You think that's all imaginary?

There is also no such state as the "purely conceptual", or "purely imaginary".

Oh indeed there is. My longtime example is "two" ─ there are no uninstantiated twos in the world external to the self. And every abstraction ─ a chair, a car, justice, love, discomfort, misapprehension, liberty, communism, peace, randomization, peculiarity, discombobulation, harassment &c &c &c &c &c ─ is purely conceptual.

 

[ElishaElijah]

We can't deduce the truth of the object of faith from the effect of having the faith, especially when accounts are so varied and contradictory. Nor can your experience magic away the contradictions and inconsistencies in the bible.

We can tell the weight rating of a chair because someone has physically done the test by either sitting on it or tested it with weights to see if it will hold up or not. Until you do that test you don’t know.
That’s what testimonies are, they are tests and until you actually live out the Word of God you won’t know if it’s true or not. When I actually did live out the Word of God I found in fact He is faithful to His Word.
Maybe if you try to plant an apple seed you will see that in fact a apple tree will grow, this also is in Genesis.
“Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:11-12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[chinu]

It's an impossible task.

Okay

 

[ratiocinator]

We can tell the weight rating of a chair because someone has physically done the test by either sitting on it or tested it with weights to see if it will hold up or not. Until you do that test you don’t know.
That’s what testimonies are, they are tests and until you actually live out the Word of God you won’t know if it’s true or not. When I actually did live out the Word of God I found in fact He is faithful to His Word.

You edited out and ignored the important part of my post that shows this to be valueless. Here it is again:-

Your story is no more useful than that of somebody who converted to (say) Islam and found fulfilment and freedom from previous problems, others who did so without any religion at all, or others who found faith and it causing them problems or even inspired obviously immoral acts.​

You also ignored the fact that I've told you that I've already been through this and (thankfully) escaped the irrationality of it all. It was a long time ago and I was young, but I remember how real it seems to be when you're caught up in it.

 

[ElishaElijah]

You edited out and ignored the important part of my post that shows this to be valueless. Here it is again:-

Your story is no more useful than that of somebody who converted to (say) Islam and found fulfilment and freedom from previous problems, others who did so without any religion at all, or others who found faith and it causing them problems or even inspired obviously immoral acts.​

You also ignored the fact that I've told you that I've already been through this and (thankfully) escaped the irrationality of it all. It was a long time ago and I was young, but I remember how real it seems to be when you're caught up in it.

I can’t speak to the experience of someone else other than my own experience and what I found. You say when you were in it, it seemed real, in what? Sounds like you never met Jesus Christ for yourself, can you even prove that statement? Sounds to me that you were caught up in some legalistic or cultish group who called themselves Christians and never actually met Jesus Christ for yourself. IMO

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I can’t speak to the experience of someone else other than my own experience and what I found. You say when you were in it, it seemed real, in what? Sounds like you never met Jesus Christ for yourself, can you even prove that statement? Sounds to me that you were caught up in some legalistic or cultish group who called themselves Christians and never actually met Jesus Christ for yourself. IMO

The bold part is good. Then you don't what you claim in the bold and speak to the experience of other: "... ever actually met Jesus Christ for yourself."

 

[Aupmanyav]

You may not see the world exactly as it is, nor feel it as such, but the reality is there.

I do not deny reality. Brahman is the only reality. What we perceive is only an illusion. Prick your finger with a pin, blood oozes out, you feel pain, but not even two atoms have come in contact. That is the reality.

"And God saw that it was good.”

God went wrong with Adam. He thought Adam was good, but had to throw him out of heaven. Then The creation, he thought it was good, but it turned out to be bad an he had to send the flood. Even after the flood, bad things remained, so he had to send Jesus. Bad thing still remain now, and at the end of days, he will have to send Jesus again. God is not a perfect engineer. He is like Mocrosoft.